finally found the 5w-20 TSB... - Page 3 - Toyota Yaris Forums

R2D2 · 10-25-2009, 02:34 AM

Thanks Craig! When 0W-10 goes mainstream the price will come down :)

1st,
Where's the love-thin is in! When the 20's went mainstream circa 2k many (including myself) cried foul. How dare they sacrifice longevity to help CAFE scores?! Guess what-they worked great!

The Euros are lagging a little behind but are heading in this direction also. The TDI is running 5W-30 now!

Here's a little light reading about viscosity
: http://yarisworld.com/forums/showpos...=363921&post=7

Check out Dr Haas Lambo UOA on BITOG with 0W-20 and G Allen's 4.0 Jeep on 0W-10!

1stToyota · 10-26-2009, 08:49 AM

R2D2,
Because I think we're just more worried about fuel economy and less worried about longevity. Most of the European oil recommendations that I come across are more heavily swayed by ambient temperatures.

I was hoping you had it in mind to do a UOA on your 5w20, first, before you switched to 0w20 to see how they compared. I'm not yet convinced that thin is in when thicker is still being listed as the oil to use in service manuals, owner's manuals and the oil cap, and the thinner oil listed on a 3 year old TSB is still left more as the afterthought.

Just for grins I'll probably not do my 2nd UOA on the Pennzoil YB 5w30, I'll probably test PP 5w20 against PP 5w30, w/o use of the filtermag, of course...still won't trust 0w20 as it's still not listed as suitable oil to use for our Yaris in any service manual, owner's manual or TSB, yet.

EDIT: Or better yet, I'd test my PP 5w30 against a 0w30, if you or somebody else could recommend a really good synthetic 0w30 to use...

Looks like it'll be Mobil 1 0w30 vs. Pennzoil Platinum 5w30
With winter coming soon looks like my first UOA will be the 0w30 :)

R2D2 · 10-26-2009, 01:01 PM

1st,

I'm not sampling the 5W-20 because it will only have 2k on it when I drain it (car will only have 5k total). I did changes at 1k, 3k and will put the RLI in at 5k. I wanted to get through most of the break-in period before a 5k run of the RLI 0W-20 during the harshest operational period of my year. The analysis will be by Terry Dyson and he's the best in the biz so he will know if it isn't optimal. Terry seeks perfection and if I can get better results with another visc or product he will let me know.

I had him do a read on my wife's Rogue and he will leave no automotive stone unturned to get you the best results for your application-and most would have been thrilled with the results I was already getting.

So I'm with you on the longevity issue-I just think people sometimes give oil thickness too much credit and not enough to flow rate. But, that's why I'm hiring Terry-he will take all the guess work out of it.

As far as recommending a 0W-30 they tend to be expensive and a little harder to come by. Mobil 1 is the cheapest, easiest to come by ($22 for 5 qts at WM)-I've not been a Mobil 1 fan for the last several years but it has done very well in the few Yaris/M1 UOAs that I've seen. My choices would be RLI, Redline, Amsoil SSO and GC (can be found at Autozone stores for about $7 a qt last I checked). Only the M1 and GC are API certified though, if that matters to you.

The Platinum you mentioned is an excellent oil at a fantastic price-either the 5W-30 or the 5W-20 would probably take most as far as they cared to drive their Yaris, in reality. I've recommended it often to people who want a solid, locally available oil without breaking the bank. Based on the Yarii oil analysis reports I have seen (admittedly mostly 30 wts) they tend to be fairly easy on their oil and non-fussy to boot. I'd be very interested in your results which ever oils you decide to test. What lab do you use?

Stay tuned-but I'm going to need at least 6 months to get 5k on this RLI run.

R2

1stToyota · 10-26-2009, 02:02 PM

I don't know why I was thinking your Yaris was about out of warranty

I guess I just assumed it was nearly out of warranty and you decided it was time to switch to 0w20

API is kinda important to me, and AutoZone had the Mobil 1 0w-30 for $6.95, so I bought 4

Blackstone labs will be doing both of my UOAs

If Mobil 1 tests out better than the PP 5w-30 I'll shop for it at WalMart next time.

R2D2 · 10-26-2009, 08:27 PM

The Blackstone folks are great-exceptional customer service. They helped me out with a special need testing situation a while back on a HD rear axle.

My hunch is the M1 will do quite well in this app. Is it the new green cap AFE?

1stToyota · 10-27-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

The Blackstone folks are great-exceptional customer service. They helped me out with a special need testing situation a while back on a HD rear axle.

My hunch is the M1 will do quite well in this app. Is it the new green cap AFE?

Yes, Napa had the old SL 0w-30, but AutoZone had the fancy green cap SM 0w-30

I'm hoping the M1 does well, if not I'll stick with the $3.95 PP :)

TheSilkySmooth · 10-27-2009, 09:26 AM

I just had to dump Castrol 5w30 syntec BC the engine was so noisy that i though it was gonna blow. I have Rotella T 10w30 CJ4 in there now, and this is the BEST overall conventional oil ive used in the past 5 years - actually the only satisfactory one. Alot of our engines have different needs and mine will absolutely not tolerate light grade oil. Toyota recommends heavier oil (5w40, 10w40 for severe service, high speed driving and towing) in my owners manual not lighter. Since I drive hard, I will need the heavier oil to survive. I dont like engines that clak and tick and clang and dont rev hard to redline. With the thicker oil they are dead quiet and smooth and will have less crankcase fuel dilution - important with E10 "gasohol" usage. Just my dos centavos
P.S: Why does the TSB say in the Red box at the beginning of the TSB to "Use the oil grade on your fill cap" then say somewhere else you can use something else - If I had a warranty issue on 20wt oil - I would be afraid they'd deny due to wrong weight. Untill they send ME a supplement to my owners manual I would never run 20wt - the TSB are not for consumer/customer dissemination, only for dealer use.

Lewis · 10-27-2009, 09:52 AM

I wonder what the mpg differential is using the 5-20 versus the 5-30? Any one know?

newhavenpatriot · 10-27-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

Newhavenpatriot,

Bless you for taking the time to post this and enlighten us! I contacted Toyota about the same via phone (as well as my dealer) and they had no idea what I was talking about. This is what I always felt was intended by the bulletin, but up until now have had no proof. I made the decision to use 20 wt anyway, but it's nice to know it's ok! Thanks again!

R2

Any time, R2. I had just searched about this issue a couple weeks ago, and I couldn't find a definitive answer. Though, I did find this thread, which prompted me to go right to the source and get an answer. Once I got an official statement from Toyota, I felt compelled to post back here where I had found the info regarding the TSB in the first place. BTW, I usually hang out on the forums at ecomodder.com with the same name, since it's more geared towards fuel efficiency and such. That's why I don't really post here.. I'm mainly a scavenger of information on this board.

R2D2 · 10-27-2009, 07:19 PM

Ecomodder is a cool place-I find myself lurking there quite often!

R2

R2D2 · 10-27-2009, 09:17 PM

Silky,

With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :)
I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? My Yaris is a little noisy when "cold" but is very quiet when fully warmed up and the oil is at it's "thinnest". I have always used 20 wt so far and have heard rumors the factory fill was a 20 also (I have no proof for this yet). Engine loves to rev but rarely gets to as I putt around and gawk at my ecometer!

The Rotella is a nice oil but would make me uneasy during a NH winter! Sure, I think it will start fine but it may (rather loudly) protest. Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know!
R2

1stToyota · 10-29-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

Silky,

With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :)
I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? My Yaris is a little noisy when "cold" but is very quiet when fully warmed up and the oil is at it's "thinnest". I have always used 20 wt so far and have heard rumors the factory fill was a 20 also (I have no proof for this yet). Engine loves to rev but rarely gets to as I putt around and gawk at my ecometer!

The Rotella is a nice oil but would make me uneasy during a NH winter! Sure, I think it will start fine but it may (rather loudly) protest. Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know!
R2

Mine's just the opposite; quiet at start up, but just a little noisy off idle in 1st gear when warm.

R2D2 · 10-29-2009, 05:38 PM

1st,

You got me thinking about sampling the 5W-20 I've currently got in the car. It will only have about 2k on it but I still think it would be interesting to see. I've got a Schaeffer sample kit here (no TBN but its only 2k). I think I will sample it just as a starting point but honestly even if it doesn't look great I won't be concerned because the engine is so young. Should happen early next week.

R2

TheSilkySmooth · 11-04-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

Silky,

With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :)
I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know!
R2

AFA oil weight - I think you have to look at each engine individually, though of course and engine "family" would be the larger set. My engine continues to have intermittent cold or hot excessive noise (bearing/valvetrain/t-chain) so I'm starting to wonder if I should drop the pan and see if ther is something around the pickup. The Fuel quality here is atrocious and I have gotten a tank with (assumed) way over 10% ethanol or somehow misformulated, given the car barely ran after the fill (87oct @ Mobil). I'm not sure if this poor fuel is also contributing to my oil woes. I am also dealing with an Exhaust backpressure issue whereas after tooling around for tens of miles, if I operate the car at WOT or near WOT merging on the interstste, I'm getting exhaust into the cabin (sulfur dioxide smell). I am currently pursuing through Toyota Customer Care and the dealer having the exhaust replaced with an upgraded hi-flow front pipe which was available to 3 dr owners in MY '06 and '07 throuh a TSB you can view elsewhere on this forum. So adding all these factors in-toto appear to be killing just about ANY oil in my car. I hope the engine survives till I get these issues resolved - it's sounding worse every day. I have a jug of 0w-30 AFE on deck for sub 20 deg winter weather.

R2D2 · 11-13-2009, 09:42 AM

1st,

I have the report back on the last (short!) 5W-20 fill from the Yaris.

2009 Yaris 1.5 L

Oil was Schaeffer's 7000 5W-20 with 1871 miles on it and 4974 on the car total at time of sample. Analysis by Schaeffer.

Copper - 3

Iron. - 7

Cromium- 0

Alum. - 7

Lead. - 0

Moly. - 329

Phos. - 963

Zinc. - 1115

Magnes. - 294

Calcium. - 2095

Sodium. - 8

Potass. - 3

Silicon. - 20

Antifreeze, water, fuel all nil.

Visc @ 100C. 8.07 (20 wt)

Oxidation % allowed 0

Nitration % allowed. 6

Looks good for such a young engine IMO. The next sample will be much more informative but we at least know nothing disastrous is going on.

R2

craigq · 11-13-2009, 04:27 PM

R2, are you going to post this on BITOG or can I?

R2D2 · 11-13-2009, 06:42 PM

Craig,

Yeah I'll post soon. I'll probably get hammered for changing it so soon but I like to get the break in metals out of there so I usually do several short fills early on.

I also forgot to mention this was a 3.5 qt fill with 7 oz of LC20 at time oil was installed + 2 oz at the 1k mark.

Just wanted a peek at what was going on after 1st Toyota got me thinking about it.

SilverGlow · 11-14-2009, 08:36 PM

If you are going for longevity for your engine, if you want it to last an absolute long time, then use 0w-20. Using 0w-20 will allow the engine to last longer then if you ran heavier oil.

This is because the lighter oil protects better during the time the engine wears the most: First 5-10 minutes of running after the first start in the morning.

At operational temperatures, there is a teeny tiny insignificant difference in engine wear between 20 and 30 and 40.

What kills engines is NOT running them at 212F on the freeway...what kills them is running the engines cold because cold means 10w-30 runs thicker then 0w-20 which means it circulates to the top and around all the internal engine parts SLOWER then 0w-20, and means more wear during the time engines wear the fastest: first 5-10 minutes of running for the day.

If you really know oil, understand how it works, you will see this is true. If you don't understand, you will have this dillusion that thicker protects better.

The only time you want to run the really thick stuff (40 weight for example) is if you are running hard, fast (racing or uphill under termendous load), and for long periods of time, in very hot weather. But for most of us, this is the exception and not the rule.

If you want your engine to last it's absolute longest, go 20 weight over 30 or heavier.

10-25-2009, 02:34 AM	#37
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	Thanks Craig! When 0W-10 goes mainstream the price will come down :) 1st, Where's the love-thin is in! When the 20's went mainstream circa 2k many (including myself) cried foul. How dare they sacrifice longevity to help CAFE scores?! Guess what-they worked great! The Euros are lagging a little behind but are heading in this direction also. The TDI is running 5W-30 now! Here's a little light reading about viscosity : http://yarisworld.com/forums/showpos...=363921&post=7 Check out Dr Haas Lambo UOA on BITOG with 0W-20 and G Allen's 4.0 Jeep on 0W-10! __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One Last edited by R2D2; 10-25-2009 at 03:35 AM. Reason: Addition

10-26-2009, 08:49 AM	#38
1stToyota Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,185	R2D2, Because I think we're just more worried about fuel economy and less worried about longevity. Most of the European oil recommendations that I come across are more heavily swayed by ambient temperatures. I was hoping you had it in mind to do a UOA on your 5w20, first, before you switched to 0w20 to see how they compared. I'm not yet convinced that thin is in when thicker is still being listed as the oil to use in service manuals, owner's manuals and the oil cap, and the thinner oil listed on a 3 year old TSB is still left more as the afterthought. Just for grins I'll probably not do my 2nd UOA on the Pennzoil YB 5w30, I'll probably test PP 5w20 against PP 5w30, w/o use of the filtermag, of course...still won't trust 0w20 as it's still not listed as suitable oil to use for our Yaris in any service manual, owner's manual or TSB, yet. EDIT: Or better yet, I'd test my PP 5w30 against a 0w30, if you or somebody else could recommend a really good synthetic 0w30 to use... Looks like it'll be Mobil 1 0w30 vs. Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 With winter coming soon looks like my first UOA will be the 0w30 :) __________________ 1997 Lincoln Town Car - *SOLD* 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD Last edited by 1stToyota; 10-26-2009 at 01:03 PM. Reason: AutoZone made a sale

10-26-2009, 01:01 PM	#39
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	1st, I'm not sampling the 5W-20 because it will only have 2k on it when I drain it (car will only have 5k total). I did changes at 1k, 3k and will put the RLI in at 5k. I wanted to get through most of the break-in period before a 5k run of the RLI 0W-20 during the harshest operational period of my year. The analysis will be by Terry Dyson and he's the best in the biz so he will know if it isn't optimal. Terry seeks perfection and if I can get better results with another visc or product he will let me know. I had him do a read on my wife's Rogue and he will leave no automotive stone unturned to get you the best results for your application-and most would have been thrilled with the results I was already getting. So I'm with you on the longevity issue-I just think people sometimes give oil thickness too much credit and not enough to flow rate. But, that's why I'm hiring Terry-he will take all the guess work out of it. As far as recommending a 0W-30 they tend to be expensive and a little harder to come by. Mobil 1 is the cheapest, easiest to come by ($22 for 5 qts at WM)-I've not been a Mobil 1 fan for the last several years but it has done very well in the few Yaris/M1 UOAs that I've seen. My choices would be RLI, Redline, Amsoil SSO and GC (can be found at Autozone stores for about $7 a qt last I checked). Only the M1 and GC are API certified though, if that matters to you. The Platinum you mentioned is an excellent oil at a fantastic price-either the 5W-30 or the 5W-20 would probably take most as far as they cared to drive their Yaris, in reality. I've recommended it often to people who want a solid, locally available oil without breaking the bank. Based on the Yarii oil analysis reports I have seen (admittedly mostly 30 wts) they tend to be fairly easy on their oil and non-fussy to boot. I'd be very interested in your results which ever oils you decide to test. What lab do you use? Stay tuned-but I'm going to need at least 6 months to get 5k on this RLI run. R2 __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One

10-26-2009, 02:02 PM	#40
1stToyota Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,185	I don't know why I was thinking your Yaris was about out of warranty I guess I just assumed it was nearly out of warranty and you decided it was time to switch to 0w20 API is kinda important to me, and AutoZone had the Mobil 1 0w-30 for $6.95, so I bought 4 Blackstone labs will be doing both of my UOAs If Mobil 1 tests out better than the PP 5w-30 I'll shop for it at WalMart next time. __________________ 1997 Lincoln Town Car - *SOLD* 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD

10-26-2009, 08:27 PM	#41
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	The Blackstone folks are great-exceptional customer service. They helped me out with a special need testing situation a while back on a HD rear axle. My hunch is the M1 will do quite well in this app. Is it the new green cap AFE? __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One

10-27-2009, 09:26 AM	#43
TheSilkySmooth Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 622	I just had to dump Castrol 5w30 syntec BC the engine was so noisy that i though it was gonna blow. I have Rotella T 10w30 CJ4 in there now, and this is the BEST overall conventional oil ive used in the past 5 years - actually the only satisfactory one. Alot of our engines have different needs and mine will absolutely not tolerate light grade oil. Toyota recommends heavier oil (5w40, 10w40 for severe service, high speed driving and towing) in my owners manual not lighter. Since I drive hard, I will need the heavier oil to survive. I dont like engines that clak and tick and clang and dont rev hard to redline. With the thicker oil they are dead quiet and smooth and will have less crankcase fuel dilution - important with E10 "gasohol" usage. Just my dos centavos P.S: Why does the TSB say in the Red box at the beginning of the TSB to "Use the oil grade on your fill cap" then say somewhere else you can use something else - If I had a warranty issue on 20wt oil - I would be afraid they'd deny due to wrong weight. Untill they send ME a supplement to my owners manual I would never run 20wt - the TSB are not for consumer/customer dissemination, only for dealer use.

10-27-2009, 09:52 AM	#44
Lewis Our off road vehicle Drives: 2009 Yaris 3dr Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 198	I wonder what the mpg differential is using the 5-20 versus the 5-30? Any one know?

10-27-2009, 07:19 PM	#46
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	Ecomodder is a cool place-I find myself lurking there quite often! R2 __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One

10-27-2009, 09:17 PM	#47
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	Silky, With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :) I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? My Yaris is a little noisy when "cold" but is very quiet when fully warmed up and the oil is at it's "thinnest". I have always used 20 wt so far and have heard rumors the factory fill was a 20 also (I have no proof for this yet). Engine loves to rev but rarely gets to as I putt around and gawk at my ecometer! The Rotella is a nice oil but would make me uneasy during a NH winter! Sure, I think it will start fine but it may (rather loudly) protest. Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know! R2 __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One

10-29-2009, 05:38 PM	#49
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	1st, You got me thinking about sampling the 5W-20 I've currently got in the car. It will only have about 2k on it but I still think it would be interesting to see. I've got a Schaeffer sample kit here (no TBN but its only 2k). I think I will sample it just as a starting point but honestly even if it doesn't look great I won't be concerned because the engine is so young. Should happen early next week. R2 __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One

11-13-2009, 09:42 AM	#51
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	1st, I have the report back on the last (short!) 5W-20 fill from the Yaris. 2009 Yaris 1.5 L Oil was Schaeffer's 7000 5W-20 with 1871 miles on it and 4974 on the car total at time of sample. Analysis by Schaeffer. Copper - 3 Iron. - 7 Cromium- 0 Alum. - 7 Lead. - 0 Moly. - 329 Phos. - 963 Zinc. - 1115 Magnes. - 294 Calcium. - 2095 Sodium. - 8 Potass. - 3 Silicon. - 20 Antifreeze, water, fuel all nil. Visc @ 100C. 8.07 (20 wt) Oxidation % allowed 0 Nitration % allowed. 6 Looks good for such a young engine IMO. The next sample will be much more informative but we at least know nothing disastrous is going on. R2 __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One

11-13-2009, 04:27 PM	#52
craigq Drives: '07 Yaris, '12 GLI Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ottawa Posts: 100	R2, are you going to post this on BITOG or can I?

11-13-2009, 06:42 PM	#53
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	Craig, Yeah I'll post soon. I'll probably get hammered for changing it so soon but I like to get the break in metals out of there so I usually do several short fills early on. I also forgot to mention this was a 3.5 qt fill with 7 oz of LC20 at time oil was installed + 2 oz at the 1k mark. Just wanted a peek at what was going on after 1st Toyota got me thinking about it. __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One

11-14-2009, 08:36 PM	#54
SilverGlow Banned Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 189	If you are going for longevity for your engine, if you want it to last an absolute long time, then use 0w-20. Using 0w-20 will allow the engine to last longer then if you ran heavier oil. This is because the lighter oil protects better during the time the engine wears the most: First 5-10 minutes of running after the first start in the morning. At operational temperatures, there is a teeny tiny insignificant difference in engine wear between 20 and 30 and 40. What kills engines is NOT running them at 212F on the freeway...what kills them is running the engines cold because cold means 10w-30 runs thicker then 0w-20 which means it circulates to the top and around all the internal engine parts SLOWER then 0w-20, and means more wear during the time engines wear the fastest: first 5-10 minutes of running for the day. If you really know oil, understand how it works, you will see this is true. If you don't understand, you will have this dillusion that thicker protects better. The only time you want to run the really thick stuff (40 weight for example) is if you are running hard, fast (racing or uphill under termendous load), and for long periods of time, in very hot weather. But for most of us, this is the exception and not the rule. If you want your engine to last it's absolute longest, go 20 weight over 30 or heavier.

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