The Basics on Brake Upgrades

[kngrsll]

Alot of people have a tough time understanding brake upgrades. Most new enthusiasts think that bigger = better. I know i thought this myself at one time. I went to a few autox's got my ass kicked, and made some changes to my car set up after getting some advice. One thing said to me was that my brake upgrade could be hampering my performance. I had a 4 piston brake upgrade on my 240sx, and it was suggested i go back to the stock parts, get new high temp pads, new blank rotors, lines, and new high temp fluid. So i did took the advice, and did it. What do you know? The braking improved ALOT!! The money from the brake kit sale was used to buy new tires (dedicated racing tires) and wheels. Now i was competing for class victories and making stabs at the top ten PAX times.

This should be done before anyone even considers any brake job. Big brake kits have their place, but if you haven't done this set yet, how do you know you are using the full capacity of the braking system??! now cars that carry more weight (not us), race for hours on end (definately not us lol), or carry alot more speed (turbo cars, some of us!) could use more brake material.

Do you guys know the purpose of a big brake kit? no big brake kit will make you stop FASTER. The brakes are limited by the grip of the tire. What is the best brake upgrade then? TIRES!!! if you can lock up your tires while braking, the brakes are at FULL stopping capacity!! Does this make sense?

So why do people do big brake kits? well, i know i did it bc i thought it would make me stop faster, but i learned better. What a big brake kit really does is allows you to absorb more heat!! brakes are heat sinks! If you are tracking and using up all your brakes, and they cant cool quickly enough, you need to increase the air to them, or increase their heat capacity. So you can use more metal, or ducting. So big brake kits have a significant advantage in heat capacity, and that is ALL. that is their only advantage. They typically weight more (unsprung none the less), which slows you down if you are not overheating your stock brakes (doubtful.) They can also change the ratio for front to rear braking capacity, which can negatively effect braking performance. So if your fronts are doing more of the work, then you are wasting braking that could be done by the rears. This is set up in the factory by hundreds of little engineers who are way smarter than us, and should be done by major brake upgrade companies. If you piece together a kit, im nearly certain you will not consider this. There is alot of math LOL. They also cost alot. That money would be better spent at a track school and autoxes where you learn to drive what you have FASTER and then you are quicker no matter the car or equipment you own.

The list garm just posted (pads, lines, fluid) will satisfy 99% of the braking needs for guys on this forum. I have tracked my car, autox'd it, and have had no brake issues (with stock pads and fluid with 60k miles on them!!) The car is so light, they are gentle on the brakes. This car is very easy on its brakes. In fact, i would almost worry that some of the high end temp pads that carbo tech offers through micro image could be tough to keep heat in! I may test this at the next event, do brake temps during a 20 min session and see what they peak at.

The brake upgrade i like most is the kind that retains the stock front caliper, and utilizes a bigger rotor and caliper bracket. I think Micro Image offers a kit like this. I think that is a smart upgrade if you are having brake fade issues and you have already tried the above set up. It's too bad 17's are required because i like 15" wheels (lighter, but most important, cheaper tires!) Before this, you could actually build a ducting kit to get temperatures down. I plan on doing this and doing a write up about it.

Now a rear disc upgrade, i would do that in a heart beat. Drums suck. I would really like to know how it would change the front to rear brake bias. This can be discovered with a little math, and can be adjusted by using an adjustable proportioning valve.

I hope this helps some of you guys out there. If you want to go fast, follow my advice. If you want to look good while getting passed, don't listen. :)

If anyone has questions or would like to chime in and add something positive, feel free!

[kngrsll]

maybe a sticky would be helpful too?

[Tamago]

i vote sticky

and i couldnt' have said it better.

[Loren]

Good stuff. I would add that IF after adding decent pads and fluid, you still have a brake fade problem with a Yaris in a track environment, add some brake ducting to cool the front brakes. That should take care of it.

Remember that the Yaris is a momentum car. As a driver, you should be finding ways to MAINTAIN speed rather than turn it into heat with the brakes.

[supmet]

Great info, I've been thinking a lot of the same things with all the big brake threads lately.


http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8333
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11930

^^ links to brake duct DIYs

Originally Posted by kngrsll

They typically weigh more (unsprung none the less),

I wonder if we could pull together a list of rotor weights - stock, R1 concepts, R1 concepts drilled, R1 concepts drilled and slotted, and then various big brake kits.

[jkuchta]

The carbotech XP8 pads are the most aggresive pads Garm offers for the front, and come up to temp really nicely on the track (and in stop-go traffic!), and offer phenominal bite (both hot and cold). Also, modulation is a no-brainer!

With time at the streets of Willow, and the "Roval" at Autoclub Speedway, brake fade never appeared during numerous 20-30 min. sessions, though the tires could only take about 10 min. before they started to cook off.

[Tamago]

what brake fluid were you running?

[jkuchta]

ATE Superblue DOT 4, with stock lines.

[TheRealEnth]

sticky!

[lilredrocket]

Thanks for putting all this info together. I will start auto-xing my car at the next event thisstuff will be good as I progress with my racing.

Def needs to be a sticky!!!

[Brian]

Great info. I've done the rear disc brake conversion, steel braided brake lines (fronts and rears
will be installed this weekend, R1 rotors, and pads. I'm very happy with the results. Braking
has increased a lot over stock. I agree that these upgrades should be done before a big brake
kit. Next step for me is to upgrade the brake fluid. I would recommend this thread to anyone
considering brake upgrades.

[eTiMaGo]

coudln't you have written this 3 years ago? stickied!

Anybody wanna buy my monster front brakes?

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

coudln't you have written this 3 years ago? stickied!

Anybody wanna buy my monster front brakes?

someone will ALWAYS be willing to drop coin on front brakes. I dunno why, but people love big brake kits.

I love cars, and i love racing. Big fat brakes just look like car porn, and i think its just too easy to get sucked into it. Its like 3 girls want to go out with you, and you just know, the girl with the big fake titties is the one you WANT to bring back home, but you know she is just a gold digger and the worst for you LOL

i mean look at these:



If you like cars, and you don't love that, somethings wrong

[Tamago]

it has 6 lugs. do not want ;)

[vten]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

!

Anybody wanna buy my monster front brakes?

how much ?

[PhasedWalker]

6 lugs and still small =S

[chrisgardinier@clearwire.]

Is there a DIY for changing pads on a Yaris? I have 2 of them and they need new pads. Thanls

[kngrsll]

i havent seen one specifically for the yaris, but if you do a search for any set of disc brakes, it should be very similar.