Track Suspension

[kngrsll]

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/hyper2a.htm

[CASTREX]

My head is gonna blow....

...Subscribed

[Loren]

I'm glad someone grasped what I was saying... I really felt like I was rambling. I literally had an awful headache at that very moment and wasn't sure I was making sense at all!

The problem with using 2.5" ID springs in the stock location is that the way the rear axle assembly moves, the lower spring perch does not come up in a straight line. It's fairly level at rest (at stock ride height), but as the suspension compresses or droops, that lower perch takes an angle compared to the upper perch, this makes the spring want to bend. Small diameter springs don't like to do that. The larger diameter spring will help with that, as will the pigtailed end.

2.5" ID springs are available in any size and rate you can think of, and they're dirt cheap (relatively speaking), but I'm not sure they'd work well for this application, unfortunately.

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by Loren

I'm glad someone grasped what I was saying... I really felt like I was rambling. I literally had an awful headache at that very moment and wasn't sure I was making sense at all!

The problem with using 2.5" ID springs in the stock location is that the way the rear axle assembly moves, the lower spring perch does not come up in a straight line. It's fairly level at rest (at stock ride height), but as the suspension compresses or droops, that lower perch takes an angle compared to the upper perch, this makes the spring want to bend. Small diameter springs don't like to do that. The larger diameter spring will help with that, as will the pigtailed end.

2.5" ID springs are available in any size and rate you can think of, and they're dirt cheap (relatively speaking), but I'm not sure they'd work well for this application, unfortunately.

Thats makes sense... i did notice that when i was down there.

now does my logic for the single pig tailed springs seem sound then?

[Loren]

Originally Posted by kngrsll

now does my logic for the single pig tailed springs seem sound then?

Certainly worth a shot. I'd put the pigtail end down if possible, since the upper spring perch is the one that's fixed.

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by Loren

Certainly worth a shot. I'd put the pigtail end down if possible, since the upper spring perch is the one that's fixed.

i think the opposite may be better. The top fixed perch seems a bit smaller than 5.5" just off the top of my head, so i think the pig tailed end would fit better there, while the bottom perch is just wide and flat.

As an alternative, I think it would be nice to come up with a way to secure the spring down flat perhaps if that set up must be done. Maybe drill a couple holes and run a clamp or something to keep it down, i dunno.

Care to expand on your idea Joel?

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by kngrsll

i think the opposite may be better. The top fixed perch seems a bit smaller than 5.5" just off the top of my head, so i think the pig tailed end would fit better there, while the bottom perch is just wide and flat.

As an alternative, I think it would be nice to come up with a way to secure the spring down flat perhaps if that set up must be done. Maybe drill a couple holes and run a clamp or something to keep it down, i dunno.

Care to expand on your idea Joel?

the silk roads utilize the weephole to bolt down the perch. can't remember if it was top or bottom, get RussellTehPirate to expound..

and i'm not the same chassis so we're talking mcintosh/fuji apples here...

as far as making conical mounts, what about grabbing some energy suspension urethane parts? i'm sure we can figure out SOMETHING that's already a stock part + a bolt/washer/nut...

[Tamago]

how about conical top/bottom mounts? like 2" conical top and bottom. that'll give you 4" of insurance, keeping the spring IN place for those airborne jumps? i believe the MKIV VW guys have something like this.

[Tamago]

touch pad + laptop + msPaint = this shitty drawing. the conical part is in "red" and my spring is orange. .. up is up and down is down.

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by Tamago

touch pad + laptop + msPaint = this shitty drawing. the conical part is in "red" and my spring is orange. .. up is up and down is down.

Awesome! i think i get it....

[Loren]

Not sure how you'd attach something like that, especially at the top.

The bottom perch you can definitely bolt something to, the K-Sport kit does that, too.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Loren

Not sure how you'd attach something like that, especially at the top.

The bottom perch you can definitely bolt something to, the K-Sport kit does that, too.

WINDO-WELD AT THE TOP?

[Loren]

Originally Posted by Tamago

WINDO-WELD AT THE TOP?

I wouldn't expect that to hold against a stiff spring that's being bent in it's perch. Maybe if you happened to have a completely loose spring it would keep things aligned as the car came down?

If you want simple... old swing-axle cars (like my Spitfire, old VW bugs and Corvairs) sometimes used "droop limiters". They used them for a different reason, on those cars, when the axle droops, camber goes positive, and if you come down on it quickly while the camber is way positive... it's not pretty.

But, all you need is a strap or cable or chain or something to keep the axle assembly from falling low enough to unseat the spring. Sort of the same thing we're already doing with the shock. That's exactly what the shock does at full extension, it limits the droop of the axle. Adding a droop limiter takes that load off of the shock, which is probably a good thing.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Loren

I wouldn't expect that to hold against a stiff spring that's being bent in it's perch. Maybe if you happened to have a completely loose spring it would keep things aligned as the car came down?

If you want simple... old swing-axle cars (like my Spitfire, old VW bugs and Corvairs) sometimes used "droop limiters". They used them for a different reason, on those cars, when the axle droops, camber goes positive, and if you come down on it quickly while the camber is way positive... it's not pretty.

But, all you need is a strap or cable or chain or something to keep the axle assembly from falling low enough to unseat the spring. Sort of the same thing we're already doing with the shock. That's exactly what the shock does at full extension, it limits the droop of the axle. Adding a droop limiter takes that load off of the shock, which is probably a good thing.

1/8" cable + a turnbuckle would do this quite nicely. that's a good idea.. i think i'll just do this lol

oh, and panel bonding epoxies are EXTREMELY strong, in most cases is replacing welding for bodymen.

[largeorangefont]

I already brought this up a couple weeks ago in the Tokico HTS thread.

You can use a tow strap to limit down travel, and it will be lighter than all that extra crap to hold the spring in. Pro Comp makes straps in various lengths for off road trucks.

I was also thinking of a bolt in perch on the torsion axle, but since there is a hole in the middle, make the lower perch adjustable.

[Loren]

I'd add the caution here that this might not be the smoothest riding street suspension over big bumps. With a 400# spring, you're not going to have much more than 1" of compression under the weight of the car. That means that your droop limiter has to retain the spring at a mere 1" of droop. Fine for competition, but possibly rough for the street.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Loren

I'd add the caution here that this might not be the smoothest riding street suspension over big bumps. With a 400# spring, you're not going to have much more than 1" of compression under the weight of the car. That means that your droop limiter has to retain the spring at a mere 1" of droop. Fine for competition, but possibly rough for the street.

i should have kept the motion ratio in mind when doing my calcs.

rough motion ratio is .7, so you'd actually compress 1.64" at static.

[Loren]

Funny... Big Orange and I are saying the same things.