Anyone tried to appy Apexi SAFC or anything similar on their YARIIIII?? - Toyota Yaris Forums

oscarying · 10-07-2006, 03:33 AM

Does it work ??

Katana · 10-07-2006, 03:37 AM

Why to use it?

oscarying · 10-07-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katana

Why to use it?

can't it make better fuel efficiency and can't it also make the VVTi activate earlier to give power rather than rev it??
i m not sure ..

paultyler_82 · 10-07-2006, 03:48 AM

I beleive Power Enterprise's CamCon works on our car and can modify the VVT-i engagement points.

Katana · 10-08-2006, 06:48 AM

Sounds nice idea.

ChinoCharles · 10-08-2006, 05:13 PM

Like a VTEC controller for Hondas, eh?

oscarying · 10-08-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Like a VTEC controller for Hondas, eh?

yes,exactly,but i m just not sure it can be applied on yaris or not...

EnduroMTS · 10-09-2006, 01:09 AM

Im almost positive it wotn help the Yaris much. We hooked up one on the Celica, VVTL-I GTS didnt do anything but actually cause problems. Might be different for the yaris, but If it works let me know :)

oscarying · 10-09-2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnduroMTS

Im almost positive it wotn help the Yaris much. We hooked up one on the Celica, VVTL-I GTS didnt do anything but actually cause problems. Might be different for the yaris, but If it works let me know :)

what problem does it cause?
i would like to make sure it helps before i buy it ...cause i know it helps on
Vtec engine,but just not sure it helps on VVTi or not

Katana · 10-09-2006, 06:43 AM

Ι think you won't have steady engine rpms.

oscarying · 10-09-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katana

Ι think you won't have steady engine rpms.

but does it really help on fuel ratio and controlling the vvti ?
I 've seen people installed on ECHO on the nets before with the pen-shape turbo timer...why they installed a turbo timer on a NA echo...with SAFC...
i don't know...may be it gives a ricer impression??that's why i m asking since the SAFC has a good looking and if it really helps the engine i will go for it,
but if not..i won't

Katana · 10-09-2006, 08:49 AM

Without being a mechanic, I am of the opinion that it won't help.

firefly1_0 · 10-19-2006, 09:39 AM

there is a big difference between Vtec and VVt-i. an engine with a performance based thing like Vtec and an economy based thing like VVt-i place it in two different worlds.

think about how they both work. honda's will change the valve train to a bigger lift and bigger overlap at a specified RPM, it never changes unless you have an aftermarket ECU that you can change the engagement point.
VVt-i will only change the timing of each cam and its constantly evolving during engine operation.
you want more power in these things, buy a compresser, or swap in something else...

Katana · 10-19-2006, 11:44 AM

...exactly!

hosmer · 10-19-2006, 06:46 PM

VVTi - controlled by the TPS (throttle position sensor)

Vtec - controlled by engine RPMs

The VVTi advances timing and starts the valve overlap as soon as you put your foot (about) 3/4 of the way to the floor and returns to "normal" when cruising....theres no real way to change the engagement time

Vtec is a whole seperate cam profile where the camshft actually slides over to a more aggressive profile (Vtec camshafts have 3 sets of lobes for each cylinder). So with an aftermarket controller you can activate the aggressive cam profile sooner getting a bit more power

Toyota VVTi (1JZGTE) HKS cams:

Honda B16A cams (3 lobes per cylinder):

cdydjded · 10-20-2006, 09:41 AM

Sorry guys but VTEC is not just an RPM function. It works with RPM's & an oil pressure activated solenoid. The solenoid opens @ the factory preset 4800 rpms which engages the 3rd lob on the cams. Just by engaging the VTEC funtion @ an earlier or later rpm will NOT give you more power unles you add more fuel. If the cam opens more (more lift) the motor needs more fuel. The advantage of a SAFC or the CamCo is really the ability to controll your engines fuel curve. If you put you car on a dyno & find that it is running lean or rich @ a certain rpm you can add or subtract fuel to fix you fuel curve.

Also VVTi does do the same as VTEC. VTEC is done with a 3rd lobe, VVTi is done with a sliding pin. Go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVT-i if you want an exact explination.

paultyler_82 · 10-20-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Also VVTi does do the same as VTEC. VTEC is done with a 3rd lobe, VVTi is done with a sliding pin. Go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVT-i if you want an exact explination.

Actually that's VVTL-i, it does vary the lift, unlike VVT-i.

and actually, all engines that use some sort of variable cam timing system like Toyota's VVT-i or Nissan's CVVT, use such a system for the performance benefit, it's there to squeeze a few extra horses out of the engine at high RPMs or hard throttle. Although it may not be as noticable in the VVT-i engine as it is in one of Nissan's CVVT engines (they can advance and retard BOTH the intake and exhaust valve cams) or in Honda's VTEC (of course the added benefit of variable lift.) but it is there for the same reason, it is a much more noticable difference on a Dual VVT-i or a VVTL-i engine, of course.

cdydjded · 10-20-2006, 05:59 PM

FIREFLY:

"VVTL-i, which can alter valve lift (and duration) as well as valve timing"

The above sentence is directly from the link. When you add lift and duration it adds power. It does the same thing as VTEC. If you want to learn about what a cam does please read below:

The camshaft uses lobes (called cams) that push against the valves to open them as the camshaft rotates; springs on the valves return them to their closed position. This is a critical job, and can have a great impact on an engine's performance at different speeds. On the next page of this article you can see the animation we built to really show you the difference between a performance camshaft and a standard one.

In this article, you will learn how the camshaft affects engine performance. We've got some great animations that show you how different engine layouts, like single overhead cam (SOHC) and double overhead cam (DOHC), really work. And then we'll go over a few of the neat ways that some cars adjust the camshaft so that it can handle different engine speeds more efficiently.

The key parts of any camshaft are the lobes. As the camshaft spins, the lobes open and close the intake and exhaust valves in time with the motion of the piston. It turns out that there is a direct relationship between the shape of the cam lobes and the way the engine performs in different speed ranges.

To understand why this is the case, imagine that we are running an engine extremely slowly -- at just 10 or 20 revolutions per minute (RPM) -- so that it takes the piston a couple of seconds to complete a cycle. It would be impossible to actually run a normal engine this slowly, but let's imagine that we could. At this slow speed, we would want cam lobes shaped so that:

Just as the piston starts moving downward in the intake stroke (called top dead center, or TDC), the intake valve would open. The intake valve would close right as the piston bottoms out.

The exhaust valve would open right as the piston bottoms out (called bottom dead center, or BDC) at the end of the combustion stroke, and would close as the piston completes the exhaust stroke.
This setup would work really well for the engine as long as it ran at this very slow speed. But what happens if you increase the RPM? Let's find out.
When you increase the RPM, the 10 to 20 RPM configuration for the camshaft does not work well. If the engine is running at 4,000 RPM, the valves are opening and closing 2,000 times every minute, or 33 times every second. At these speeds, the piston is moving very quickly, so the air/fuel mixture rushing into the cylinder is moving very quickly as well.

When the intake valve opens and the piston starts its intake stroke, the air/fuel mixture in the intake runner starts to accelerate into the cylinder. By the time the piston reaches the bottom of its intake stroke, the air/fuel is moving at a pretty high speed. If we were to slam the intake valve shut, all of that air/fuel would come to a stop and not enter the cylinder. By leaving the intake valve open a little longer, the momentum of the fast-moving air/fuel continues to force air/fuel into the cylinder as the piston starts its compression stroke. So the faster the engine goes, the faster the air/fuel moves, and the longer we want the intake valve to stay open. We also want the valve to open wider at higher speeds -- this parameter, called valve lift, is governed by the cam lobe profile.

The animation below shows how a regular cam and a performance cam have different valve timing. Notice that the exhaust (red circle) and intake (blue circle) cycles overlap a lot more on the performance cam. Because of this, cars with this type of cam tend to run very roughly at idle.

10-07-2006, 03:33 AM	#1
oscarying Drives: SLOOWZ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 56	Anyone tried to appy Apexi SAFC or anything similar on their YARIIIII?? Does it work ??

10-07-2006, 03:37 AM	#2
Katana Drives: Yaris LB 1.3lt 06 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Under the hood! Posts: 1,124	Why to use it? __________________ It's not the ride, it's the rider!

10-08-2006, 06:48 AM	#5
Katana Drives: Yaris LB 1.3lt 06 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Under the hood! Posts: 1,124	Sounds nice idea. __________________ It's not the ride, it's the rider!

10-09-2006, 06:43 AM	#10
Katana Drives: Yaris LB 1.3lt 06 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Under the hood! Posts: 1,124	Ι think you won't have steady engine rpms. __________________ It's not the ride, it's the rider!

10-09-2006, 08:49 AM	#12
Katana Drives: Yaris LB 1.3lt 06 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Under the hood! Posts: 1,124	Without being a mechanic, I am of the opinion that it won't help. __________________ It's not the ride, it's the rider!

10-07-2006, 03:48 AM	#4
paultyler_82 View User's Garage Drives: 07 Meteorite Metallic Yaris LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA Posts: 441	I beleive Power Enterprise's CamCon works on our car and can modify the VVT-i engagement points.

10-08-2006, 05:13 PM	#6
ChinoCharles Banned Drives: LB Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH Posts: 7,787	Like a VTEC controller for Hondas, eh?

10-09-2006, 01:09 AM	#8
EnduroMTS Drives: 2007 Toyota Yaris Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 63	Im almost positive it wotn help the Yaris much. We hooked up one on the Celica, VVTL-I GTS didnt do anything but actually cause problems. Might be different for the yaris, but If it works let me know :)

10-19-2006, 09:39 AM	#13
firefly1_0 What the...? Drives: '06 Blazing Blue 3 door RS. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada Posts: 88	there is a big difference between Vtec and VVt-i. an engine with a performance based thing like Vtec and an economy based thing like VVt-i place it in two different worlds. think about how they both work. honda's will change the valve train to a bigger lift and bigger overlap at a specified RPM, it never changes unless you have an aftermarket ECU that you can change the engagement point. VVt-i will only change the timing of each cam and its constantly evolving during engine operation. you want more power in these things, buy a compresser, or swap in something else... __________________ my other car is still faster... ...and the engine is way smaller. silly ricer, useless wings are for penguins...

10-19-2006, 11:44 AM	#14
Katana Drives: Yaris LB 1.3lt 06 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Under the hood! Posts: 1,124	...exactly! __________________ It's not the ride, it's the rider!

10-19-2006, 06:46 PM	#15
hosmer VVTrouble Drives: 07 Yaris LB...BS, MT, PP, ABS Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Providence RI Posts: 23	VVTi - controlled by the TPS (throttle position sensor) Vtec - controlled by engine RPMs The VVTi advances timing and starts the valve overlap as soon as you put your foot (about) 3/4 of the way to the floor and returns to "normal" when cruising....theres no real way to change the engagement time Vtec is a whole seperate cam profile where the camshft actually slides over to a more aggressive profile (Vtec camshafts have 3 sets of lobes for each cylinder). So with an aftermarket controller you can activate the aggressive cam profile sooner getting a bit more power Toyota VVTi (1JZGTE) HKS cams: Honda B16A cams (3 lobes per cylinder):

10-20-2006, 09:41 AM	#16
cdydjded Drives: Yaris LB Turbo Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami FL Posts: 782	Sorry guys but VTEC is not just an RPM function. It works with RPM's & an oil pressure activated solenoid. The solenoid opens @ the factory preset 4800 rpms which engages the 3rd lob on the cams. Just by engaging the VTEC funtion @ an earlier or later rpm will NOT give you more power unles you add more fuel. If the cam opens more (more lift) the motor needs more fuel. The advantage of a SAFC or the CamCo is really the ability to controll your engines fuel curve. If you put you car on a dyno & find that it is running lean or rich @ a certain rpm you can add or subtract fuel to fix you fuel curve. Also VVTi does do the same as VTEC. VTEC is done with a 3rd lobe, VVTi is done with a sliding pin. Go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVT-i if you want an exact explination.

10-20-2006, 05:59 PM	#18
cdydjded Drives: Yaris LB Turbo Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami FL Posts: 782	FIREFLY: "VVTL-i, which can alter valve lift (and duration) as well as valve timing" The above sentence is directly from the link. When you add lift and duration it adds power. It does the same thing as VTEC. If you want to learn about what a cam does please read below: The camshaft uses lobes (called cams) that push against the valves to open them as the camshaft rotates; springs on the valves return them to their closed position. This is a critical job, and can have a great impact on an engine's performance at different speeds. On the next page of this article you can see the animation we built to really show you the difference between a performance camshaft and a standard one. In this article, you will learn how the camshaft affects engine performance. We've got some great animations that show you how different engine layouts, like single overhead cam (SOHC) and double overhead cam (DOHC), really work. And then we'll go over a few of the neat ways that some cars adjust the camshaft so that it can handle different engine speeds more efficiently. The key parts of any camshaft are the lobes. As the camshaft spins, the lobes open and close the intake and exhaust valves in time with the motion of the piston. It turns out that there is a direct relationship between the shape of the cam lobes and the way the engine performs in different speed ranges. To understand why this is the case, imagine that we are running an engine extremely slowly -- at just 10 or 20 revolutions per minute (RPM) -- so that it takes the piston a couple of seconds to complete a cycle. It would be impossible to actually run a normal engine this slowly, but let's imagine that we could. At this slow speed, we would want cam lobes shaped so that: Just as the piston starts moving downward in the intake stroke (called top dead center, or TDC), the intake valve would open. The intake valve would close right as the piston bottoms out. The exhaust valve would open right as the piston bottoms out (called bottom dead center, or BDC) at the end of the combustion stroke, and would close as the piston completes the exhaust stroke. This setup would work really well for the engine as long as it ran at this very slow speed. But what happens if you increase the RPM? Let's find out. When you increase the RPM, the 10 to 20 RPM configuration for the camshaft does not work well. If the engine is running at 4,000 RPM, the valves are opening and closing 2,000 times every minute, or 33 times every second. At these speeds, the piston is moving very quickly, so the air/fuel mixture rushing into the cylinder is moving very quickly as well. When the intake valve opens and the piston starts its intake stroke, the air/fuel mixture in the intake runner starts to accelerate into the cylinder. By the time the piston reaches the bottom of its intake stroke, the air/fuel is moving at a pretty high speed. If we were to slam the intake valve shut, all of that air/fuel would come to a stop and not enter the cylinder. By leaving the intake valve open a little longer, the momentum of the fast-moving air/fuel continues to force air/fuel into the cylinder as the piston starts its compression stroke. So the faster the engine goes, the faster the air/fuel moves, and the longer we want the intake valve to stay open. We also want the valve to open wider at higher speeds -- this parameter, called valve lift, is governed by the cam lobe profile. The animation below shows how a regular cam and a performance cam have different valve timing. Notice that the exhaust (red circle) and intake (blue circle) cycles overlap a lot more on the performance cam. Because of this, cars with this type of cam tend to run very roughly at idle.