Japanese products

[Pavel Olavich]

I think the OP is making too much ado about nothing.

Don't over complicate this. The term "Made In Japan" simply means that the product was made in a country that is known for, or has a reputation for high quality.

It is that simple, so why you even made an issue of this, or feel the need to be on some sort of mission of God, to save us all is misguided energy, to be sure.

The best stuff often comes from Japan. They have the best reputation. It reall is that simple. ;-)

And the real reason the Japanese make more reliable products then the Americans has nothing to do with lack on QC/QA knowledge on the part of Americans, and everything to do with the damage caused by Unions in this country over the years, the sky high cost of pensions, healthcare, massive costs that each American car sold is burdened by; something that the Japanese cars have little of, or none of. Many American firms simply cannot afford much QA/QC, as they're being choked by the high cost of pensioners, unions, healthcare, and the like.

Blame our American demise on Trade Unions, Democrats having a sense of entitlement, something for nothing, democrats that completely ignore JFK's fameous speech "...ask not what your country can do for you...rather ask, what can you do for your country..".

But to be fair, the Europeans are even worse the the Americans...they show less productivity the us, often showing less quality then us, and they have an even harder time competing against Japanese made products then Americans.

Did you know that most Mercedes models, most Range Rovers, Volvos, costing $80,000+ are LESS reliable then our Yaris? Hell, even less reliable then most American Chevy's!

[jdium]

Who cares where something is made??? I don't understand the infatuation with "JDM" parts, made in Japan parts, etc. I want the best quality parts, for the best value. Sometimes that means Japanese parts, sometimes that means American parts, sometimes that means Japanese products being produced in Mexico with American parts, etc. I'm not brand blind/loyal. If it's the right quality for the right price, it's my preferred product...

[Pars]

I've heard that Toyota manufactors the parts slotted for the assembly line themselves, while the other manufacture will rely on third party sources. Normally, getting the stuff made in-house equates to inferior products (more so in a union shop). It's a wonder that Toyota can still get quality stuff while doing it themselves.

Once the car is built, the OEM stuff is usually garbage compared to the stuff that's put into a newly assemble car. The aftermarket performance stuff are much more expensive, but tend to be quality products.

When my old-man used to work with Magna and the first guy to be able to program the robots to apply clear-coat on wet paint (back in the 80th, no one else was doing it), The Japanese were all over their assemble plant to figure-out how they did it. And they still couldn't duplicate the process. Seems that they still can't get the handle on giving the car a quality paint job. Perhaps relying too heavily on the Japanese mine-set will be a disadvantage. Granted, the Japanese have the right attitude, we all should take pride in our work, but in N.A, there's a diverse talent pool with people who are more intuitive rather then analytical. It's just a matter of time before the world wins out against one country (in the automotive arena).

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by Pars

I've heard that Toyota manufactors the parts slotted for the assembly line themselves, while the other manufacture will rely on third party sources. Normally, getting the stuff made in-house equates to inferior products (more so in a union shop). It's a wonder that Toyota can still get quality stuff while doing it themselves.

Once the car is built, the OEM stuff is usually garbage compared to the stuff that's put into a newly assemble car. The aftermarket performance stuff are much more expensive, but tend to be quality products.

When my old-man used to work with Magna and the first guy to be able to program the robots to apply clear-coat on wet paint (back in the 80th, no one else was doing it), The Japanese were all over their assemble plant to figure-out how they did it. And they still couldn't duplicate the process. Seems that they still can't get the handle on giving the car a quality paint job. Perhaps relying too heavily on the Japanese mine-set will be a disadvantage. Granted, the Japanese have the right attitude, we all should take pride in our work, but in N.A, there's a diverse talent pool with people who are more intuitive rather then analytical. It's just a matter of time before the world wins out against one country (in the automotive arena).

Toyota relys on 3rd parties just as much as everyother manifacture, but they just have a more strict QC policy.... for example
Chevy will except a 1 in 1000 part failier rate
Toyota will only except 1 in 10,000

[kimona]

Originally Posted by Pars

Perhaps relying too heavily on the Japanese mine-set will be a disadvantage. Granted, the Japanese have the right attitude, we all should take pride in our work, but in N.A, there's a diverse talent pool with people who are more intuitive rather then analytical. It's just a matter of time before the world wins out against one country (in the automotive arena).

Certainly the Japanese are masters at "reinventing the wheel" and then perfecting it. But, contrary to Western thought, this requires not only analytical minds but highly creative ones as well.

Intuition by definition is non-logical and cannot support a manufacturing base (and culture) indefinitely. As America continues to struggle with integrating these principles in industry and into our QA/QC programmes, Japan watches in disbelief... and we all witness the disintegration of American industry (and society)... and we continue to make excuses and blame others with verbose rhetoric.

In the "automotive arena", it's already abundantly clear that Japan is winning the race, and America hasn't got a hope in hell of ever catching up.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by kimona54

Certainly the Japanese are masters at "reinventing the wheel" and then perfecting it. But, contrary to Western thought, this requires not only analytical minds but highly creative ones as well.

Intuition by definition is non-logical and cannot support a manufacturing base (and culture) indefinitely. As America continues to struggle with integrating these principles in industry and into our QA/QC programmes, Japan watches in disbelief... and we all witness the disintegration of American industry (and society)... and we continue to make excuses and blame others with verbose rhetoric.

In the "automotive arena", it's already abundantly clear that Japan is winning the race, and America hasn't got a hope in hell of ever catching up.

Beautifully put.... and very true.... I truely believe GM and Ford are one day going to be thought of the same way we think of AMC's, Overland's and so on

[voodoo22]

If you ever have the chance, go to Japan.

It can be, but doesn't have to be expensive. It is an amazing society with higher standards than anywhere I have ever been.

Go to Japan and see what it's like. You'll be surprised at the high standards demanded across the board.

Japanese do not accept poor quality and service and that's the only reason the Japanese companies have higher standards. It has nothing to do with Japanese being smarter, but it has everything to do with the fact that if you do not offer a product which gives the consumer quality for the money, you will not make a profit.

One of the most surprising things about Japan is there is no such thing as a tip. You are expected to do your job well. It's not like Toronto where you get crap service, ok products and are still expected to give a 15% tip.

Japan isn't some Utopia, but it is definitely a very unique and high quality society, especially for men.

[Pars]

Originally Posted by kimona54

Certainly the Japanese are masters at "reinventing the wheel" and then perfecting it. But, contrary to Western thought, this requires not only analytical minds but highly creative ones as well.

Intuition by definition is non-logical and cannot support a manufacturing base (and culture) indefinitely. As America continues to struggle with integrating these principles in industry and into our QA/QC programmes, Japan watches in disbelief... and we all witness the disintegration of American industry (and society)... and we continue to make excuses and blame others with verbose rhetoric.

In the "automotive arena", it's already abundantly clear that Japan is winning the race, and America hasn't got a hope in hell of ever catching up.

From personal experience, the Japanese stuff do tend to be better. Well, I'm on my third pair of Maui Jim sunglasses, but that's because of neglect after owning them for a few years, not bad workmanship.

The Japanese do seem to be a passionate bunch, I'll give them that. Not like us lie-about Indie/South American. Granted, we do tend to do well in middle of the jungle among all the chaos. (that's a discussion more suited for the bookworms and the philosophers, I don't have any patient for it)

Japanese Anime & Kill Bill are my most favorite thing on the DVP players and then there's my Yaris. I guess I shouldn't bite the hand that feeds me

As for winning the automotive race, I'd buy American, if they came up with the right formula (fuel efficiency + hauling capability + sporty drive) in an attractive package. I wouldn't hold workmanship or perceived quality against them. 5 years ago, I might have, but not anymore.

[kimona]

Originally Posted by Pars

As for winning the automotive race, I'd buy American, if they came up with the right formula (fuel efficiency + hauling capability + sporty drive) in an attractive package. I wouldn't hold workmanship or perceived quality against them. 5 years ago, I might have, but not anymore.

This makes no sense whatsoever!

This is precisely the reason the American automotive industry has lost the race: poor workmanship and the mere perception of quality! And, yes, we need to "hold (this) against them."

[steved]

Originally Posted by kimona54

This makes no sense whatsoever!

This is precisely the reason the American automotive industry has lost the race: poor workmanship and the mere perception of quality! And, yes, we need to "hold (this) against them."

Exactly, the American automotive industry wants one thing, "MONEY". From the Corporation head, the Unions, and the workers who want more money to do less work.

And it is also North American peoples fault also, we want everything for nothing.
Because of that attitude look what we get, poor workmanship and poor quality cars and most things in general. This is also the reason why everything is being sent overseas. Imagine how great North America would be if we were more like the Japanese.

Me personally I have this attitude. "Pay now, or pay later".

I would rather pay more for a better quality car then buy a cheaper quality car and pay for all the repairs and extra fuel costs later on, which in the long run is becomes more expensive then buying the better quality car in the first place.

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by Pars

I wouldn't hold workmanship or perceived quality against them. 5 years ago, I might have, but not anymore.

Sorry you digressed. Hope you get back on track. It is your very type that the American company's are hoping to find in big numbers, in order to sell shit quality cars.

You need to wake up to the reality that QUALITY sells better then anything.

Everytime I buy Japanese, it is my way of giving American companies the middle finger...F--- them! Why should I buy their BS products?

A true patriot makes high quality products, so then who are the traitors to America? Ford. GM. Chrysler.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by Pavel Olavich

I think the OP is making too much ado about nothing.

Don't over complicate this. The term "Made In Japan" simply means that the product was made in a country that is known for, or has a reputation for high quality.

It is that simple, so why you even made an issue of this, or feel the need to be on some sort of mission of God, to save us all is misguided energy, to be sure.

The best stuff often comes from Japan. They have the best reputation. It reall is that simple. ;-)

And the real reason the Japanese make more reliable products then the Americans has nothing to do with lack on QC/QA knowledge on the part of Americans, and everything to do with the damage caused by Unions in this country over the years, the sky high cost of pensions, healthcare, massive costs that each American car sold is burdened by; something that the Japanese cars have little of, or none of. Many American firms simply cannot afford much QA/QC, as they're being choked by the high cost of pensioners, unions, healthcare, and the like.

Blame our American demise on Trade Unions, Democrats having a sense of entitlement, something for nothing, democrats that completely ignore JFK's fameous speech "...ask not what your country can do for you...rather ask, what can you do for your country..".

But to be fair, the Europeans are even worse the the Americans...they show less productivity the us, often showing less quality then us, and they have an even harder time competing against Japanese made products then Americans.

Did you know that most Mercedes models, most Range Rovers, Volvos, costing $80,000+ are LESS reliable then our Yaris? Hell, even less reliable then most American Chevy's!

WOW something I actually agree with Pavel with... I think those are the first coherent words I have ever seen you type

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by Black Yaris

WOW something I actually agree with Pavel with... I think those are the first coherent words I have ever seen you type

What? Someone agrees with me? This is not good...I was hoping to be the lone wolf with the wierd ideas....are you sure you're not just tired, or drunk, or something? Low blood suger?

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by Pavel Olavich

What? Someone agrees with me? This is not good...I was hoping to be the lone wolf with the wierd ideas....are you sure you're not just tired, or drunk, or something? Low blood suger?

Hey..... I never agree with you Pavel.... tell you the truth I don't like 99.9% of what you come up with.... but this must be that 0.1%, that whole paragraph was dead on... I actually preached the same thing in an earlier thread

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by Black Yaris

Hey..... I never agree with you Pavel.... tell you the truth I don't like 99.9% of what you come up with.... but this must be that 0.1%, that whole paragraph was dead on... I actually preached the same thing in an earlier thread

Well then BlackYaris, glad to know you're health is fine, blood sugar is up, and all is well with you.... Thanks for your tolerance when we do disagree...

[YarisTom73]

Originally Posted by Pavel Olavich

I think the OP is making too much ado about nothing.

Don't over complicate this. The term "Made In Japan" simply means that the product was made in a country that is known for, or has a reputation for high quality.

It is that simple, so why you even made an issue of this, or feel the need to be on some sort of mission of God, to save us all is misguided energy, to be sure.

Mission of God? Yikes, talk about too much ado.. all I'm saying, as others have concurred, is that one needs to rely on more than a "100% made in Japan" sticker on his bulbs or muffler or whatever before making a potentially unwise cash investment. (see the most recent post about the TRD sway bar callback). There are ten million companies manufacturing both good and bad parts: don't assume that a product made in any country is better than another automatically for that reason exclusively.
I guess once again, it's every consumer for himself...go ahead, invest in that "JDM" Chevy truck part