How to Remember 9/11

[la panique]

Barely voted? More people voted for Bush in 2004 than any other president in history...

Consider this, the oil fields in Iraq? What do you know...for the most part belong to French companies, not Iraq. If we were fighting for the oil in Iraq, why not fight against France.

Lets re-wind to before 9-11. Gee, Bill Clinton and his administration patrol and enforce Iraq, ie Southern Watch, Northern Watch, etc etc. What for would we patrol Iraq and enforce no-fly zones, where the smallest problem could erupt into war.

I'll agree there are plenty of things that could have been done differently, but remember those trying times right after 9/11? Damn right Clinton, John Kerry, any president would have taken off to the middle east, and we'd probably be in just bad of shape.

Concerning Saudi Arabia...well lets see, for one instance, they are our ally. (And a helpful one at that..) Secondly, they don't live under the iron fist of an oppressive dictator who is willing to kill those who are the slightest bit different. I was in Saudi last December on a training exercise, and it's the furthest thing from a threat. Technology is key and Saudi Arabia is hardly third-world.

Those who say we have no place in Iraq, and that we should keep our noses out of other people's business. Hmm, consider Kosovo and Bosnia, did we have no right to be there, either? How about ask them.

North Korea...yes, North Korea could possibly be a threat, however, attacking them would cause a much bigger mess than what you see in Iraq and Afghanistan, being as North Korea could actually put up a good standing military. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the military fell without any resistance in a matter of weeks. It's been a war of insurgents for the last couple of years.

Anyways, I could go on forever, but like I said, everyone is set on their own opinion, and isn't going to change it by hearing one, or even a million people. I guess that's the beauty of America though, that you can still for the most part say what you want. :)

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by la panique

Consider this, the oil fields in Iraq? What do you know...for the most part belong to French companies, not Iraq. If we were fighting for the oil in Iraq, why not fight against France.

On the morning that Iraq invaded Kuwait there were 29 hotspots around the world. On the previous day there were 28. In the previous 6 months there had been at least a dozen an any given day, and we never deployed. Yet the minute Iraq crossed the border into an oil-producing country that was friendly to the United States I was on a plane and didn't set foot in my home country for the next 19 months.

Over the next decade Saddam continued to threaten oil security not only in Iraq but in all of the Middle East (don't forget that Iraq is an OPEC member and producer), and so we invaded Iraq. On the day we invaded Iraq there were at least 4 other countries hostile to the U.S. that had WMD, and at least another dozen countries working on it. On that day Al Qaeda was active in at least 7 other countries.

The difference between all those other countries and Iraq? No oil, or at least no seats on OPEC.

Since the invasion of Iraq began Bush has signed many Bills revolving around oil. There were no less than 5 refinery bailout packages, the $100k tax credit for any SMB that purchases a vehicle heavier than 10k pounds, the appointment of the former CEO of GM as Bush's Senior Advisor, etc. Congress has unsurprisingly failed to raise CAFE or emission standards, and more money than ever is puring into their pockets from big oil, as reported recently by the AP.

I do not mean to belittle your involvement in Iraq whatsoever, and truth be told I'm just glad to see Saddam overthrown, regardless of the circumstances. I saw what he did to the Kurds in the days between the cease fire called in the first Gulf War and the establishment of the no-fly zone... his retaliation for the Kurdish uprising that we instigated. However, make no mistake that everything we've ever done regarding Iraq is based in oil and regional/oil security.

[brickhardmeat]

Originally Posted by BailOut

On the morning that Iraq invaded Kuwait there were 29 hotspots around the world. On the previous day there were 28. In the previous 6 months there had been at least a dozen an any given day, and we never deployed. Yet the minute Iraq crossed the border into an oil-producing country that was friendly to the United States I was on a plane and didn't set foot in my home country for the next 19 months.

Over the next decade Saddam continued to threaten oil security not only in Iraq but in all of the Middle East (don't forget that Iraq is an OPEC member and producer), and so we invaded Iraq. On the day we invaded Iraq there were at least 4 other countries hostile to the U.S. that had WMD, and at least another dozen countries working on it. On that day Al Qaeda was active in at least 7 other countries.

The difference between all those other countries and Iraq? No oil, or at least no seats on OPEC.

Since the invasion of Iraq began Bush has signed many Bills revolving around oil. There were no less than 5 refinery bailout packages, the $100k tax credit for any SMB that purchases a vehicle heavier than 10k pounds, the appointment of the former CEO of GM as Bush's Senior Advisor, etc. Congress has unsurprisingly failed to raise CAFE or emission standards, and more money than ever is puring into their pockets from big oil, as reported recently by the AP.

I do not mean to belittle your involvement in Iraq whatsoever, and truth be told I'm just glad to see Saddam overthrown, regardless of the circumstances. I saw what he did to the Kurds in the days between the cease fire called in the first Gulf War and the establishment of the no-fly zone... his retaliation for the Kurdish uprising that we instigated. However, make no mistake that everything we've ever done regarding Iraq is based in oil and regional/oil security.

my dad was over there too during the gulf war, he stayed in Ryadh mostly though

[redyaris]

Originally Posted by la panique

Barely voted? More people voted for Bush in 2004 than any other president in history...

Consider this, the oil fields in Iraq? What do you know...for the most part belong to French companies, not Iraq. If we were fighting for the oil in Iraq, why not fight against France.

Lets re-wind to before 9-11. Gee, Bill Clinton and his administration patrol and enforce Iraq, ie Southern Watch, Northern Watch, etc etc. What for would we patrol Iraq and enforce no-fly zones, where the smallest problem could erupt into war.

I'll agree there are plenty of things that could have been done differently, but remember those trying times right after 9/11? Damn right Clinton, John Kerry, any president would have taken off to the middle east, and we'd probably be in just bad of shape.

Concerning Saudi Arabia...well lets see, for one instance, they are our ally. (And a helpful one at that..) Secondly, they don't live under the iron fist of an oppressive dictator who is willing to kill those who are the slightest bit different. I was in Saudi last December on a training exercise, and it's the furthest thing from a threat. Technology is key and Saudi Arabia is hardly third-world.

Those who say we have no place in Iraq, and that we should keep our noses out of other people's business. Hmm, consider Kosovo and Bosnia, did we have no right to be there, either? How about ask them.

North Korea...yes, North Korea could possibly be a threat, however, attacking them would cause a much bigger mess than what you see in Iraq and Afghanistan, being as North Korea could actually put up a good standing military. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the military fell without any resistance in a matter of weeks. It's been a war of insurgents for the last couple of years.

Anyways, I could go on forever, but like I said, everyone is set on their own opinion, and isn't going to change it by hearing one, or even a million people. I guess that's the beauty of America though, that you can still for the most part say what you want. :)

Lets just say we differ greatly on these chain of events. I respect your opinion and value your service.