Chevy Volt - future GM failure

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by tuckevalastin

I doubt that, the Prius wasn't much when it hit the dealerships and that didn't stop the buyers.


At the same time how can GM perfect the volt without actually releasing it?

The Prius was about $22k at release and came from a trusted auto manufacturer with the solidity to back it. GM is nothing like that.

I am not sure why you have the idea that an auto has to be released before it can be improved upon but that is just not so. There are several things that can be done to improve the Volt before it goes into production:

1) Make it a 4-5 seater. Coupes are impractical.

2) Focus it's strengths on range and efficiency rather than performance. Continuing to make vehicles based on hp, 0-60 times and top speeds far in excess of the highest speed limits the country has in place is idiotic and unreflective of the world we live in.

3) Stop self-enforcing the ridiculous idea that COTS batteries are not good enough for use in EVs. People have been driving successful EVs for decades on lead acid and NiMH batteries. About $25k of the Volt's cost is nothing but GM's own battery build.

4) Provide an extended warranty for the drive line and totally outsource it. No one trusts GM to be there, or at least to be fully functional, or to at least be autonomous, in the coming years.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by BailOut

The Prius was about $22k at release and came from a trusted auto manufacturer with the solidity to back it. GM is nothing like that.

I am not sure why you have the idea that an auto has to be released before it can be improved upon but that is just not so. There are several things that can be done to improve the Volt before it goes into production:

1) Make it a 4-5 seater. Coupes are impractical.

I tend to agree with this one, if only because coupes are impractical. I owned a CRX for a long time after all.

Originally Posted by BailOut

2) Focus it's strengths on range and efficiency rather than performance. Continuing to make vehicles based on hp, 0-60 times and top speeds far in excess of the highest speed limits the country has in place is idiotic and unreflective of the world we live in.

That is true, however Brian, the world we live in is not the world it ought to be. The average America wants "Butt Dyno" and GM will not commit to a making a vehicle which has the "acceleration of a golf cart".

Originally Posted by BailOut

3) Stop self-enforcing the ridiculous idea that COTS batteries are not good enough for use in EVs. People have been driving successful EVs for decades on lead acid and NiMH batteries. About $20k of the Volt's cost is nothing but the cost of GM's own battery build.

Depends upon the COTS that are chosen. Some choices will be hard to manage and require elaborate assemblies. Others will be expensive to obtain.

GM probably chose a combination that reduced labor costs and price. That's not cheap to do.

I personally think that they should go with a "pack" that has specified dimensions, ampacity and voltage and then outsource it. Aftermarket sales of such packs will help insure a good logistical train and reduce prices for consumers.

You are correct about EVs. Some of the first automobiles were EVs and they probably used Lead-Acid batteries.

Originally Posted by BailOut

4) Provide an extended warranty for the drive line and totally outsource it. No one trusts GM to be there, or at least to be fully functional, or to at least be autonomous, in the coming years.

Sad but true.... but there are insurance companies which could assume this burden.

Gene

PS

This still does not address the issue of US power grid capacity. We cannot replace our current gasoline consumption with electric power over night.

[tuckevalastin]

Apparently you believe that GM just thought of a Volt yesterday and decided to start selling them tomorrow. Of course they approved upon the original design but if an automaker just keeps improving upon a design and never releases it they will, 1, not get the real world information for the car, and 2, not accomplish anything as there is no point in a perfect car that is never released. Any automaker comes to a point on any model where they have to release it to the public and see what happens. You can't make a perfect vehicle without the real world results you get once they are sold to large amounts of people.

Also for people such as myself the fact that a car costs $22k doesnt make it unimportant if the car has problems. So I have no idea what that point is supposed to mean.

As for your ways GM could improve the Volt; You are basically telling GM that to improve the car that must make it a completely different kind of car. That's like saying to improve the sweetness of a pepper you should turn it into a watermelon. GM decided on the type of car they wanted to build and they built exactly that.

On a final note trust is a personal thing and your trusts don't match everyone else's. And any smart man will tell you that the first gen of a technology has nothing to do with trust but instead the willingness to pay for a technology which will be better and cheaper in just a few short years. Go find a first gen cell phone and you will see what I mean.

Originally Posted by BailOut

The Prius was about $22k at release and came from a trusted auto manufacturer with the solidity to back it. GM is nothing like that.

I am not sure why you have the idea that an auto has to be released before it can be improved upon but that is just not so. There are several things that can be done to improve the Volt before it goes into production:

1) Make it a 4-5 seater. Coupes are impractical.

2) Focus it's strengths on range and efficiency rather than performance. Continuing to make vehicles based on hp, 0-60 times and top speeds far in excess of the highest speed limits the country has in place is idiotic and unreflective of the world we live in.

3) Stop self-enforcing the ridiculous idea that COTS batteries are not good enough for use in EVs. People have been driving successful EVs for decades on lead acid and NiMH batteries. About $25k of the Volt's cost is nothing but GM's own battery build.

4) Provide an extended warranty for the drive line and totally outsource it. No one trusts GM to be there, or at least to be fully functional, or to at least be autonomous, in the coming years.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by tuckevalastin

On a final note trust is a personal thing and your trusts don't match everyone else's. And any smart man will tell you that the first gen of a technology has nothing to do with trust but instead the willingness to pay for a technology which will be better and cheaper in just a few short years. Go find a first gen cell phone and you will see what I mean.

hehe... that might be a bad analogy to use the cell phone.
I had a buddy in college, around spring of 02 find an old Cellular 1 phone... you know, the ones that were like a brick with an antenna. They showed more resemblence to an army radio and anything else.

He actually got it working for a brief time and swore up and down that it was better than his currently phone. He thought heavily about switching phones... You couldn't use those 1st gen phones anymore because of changes in technologies and signals.

Cells got smaller.... not better.