Religious Question/Opinion

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Here's the thing, my gf (and the rest of them), are saying that the only way to Heaven is to follow everything the Bible says; i.e. do not eat pork, do not do anything but stay home and read the Bible during Sabbeth (Friday through Saturday), etc. Well, not exactly that, it's more of showing that you love Jesus/God, and to do so, you follow the Bible, primarily the 10 Commandments. However, I have different beliefs on how to get into Heaven or Hell. I find it extremely hard to believe that a person who is genuinely good, but does not necessarily follow all of the Commandments/the Bible will not get into Heaven; yet, let's take a "bad" person (what ever that may be) that follows the Commandments/Bible; does that mean that that person has a better chance of getting into Heaven than the genuinely good person?

I found it highly irritating when my gf said that "Catholicism is the anti-Christ." We all have different beliefs, and there are people who do not even believe in a heaven and hell. Who is to say that those who do not follow/believe in SDA will go to hell? I mean, with other religions, doesn't that mean that SDA will go to their version of hell?

The whole works vs faith thing is pretty much summed up in ephesians 4:8-9

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

Pretty much that says to me good works comes after faith, not the other way around.

My problem with the bashing on SDA, is this. 2 Timothy 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is god-breathed and useful for training, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness". Now the whole idea behind the bible is that god controlled the canonical meetings, to decide which books would be in the bible. Now the previous verse from timothy, would tell me, that any book that GOD decided to put into HIS bible, would only contain useful, pertinent scriptures, and we should follow EVERYTHING in the bible... One hallucinatory dream by peter negates the entire old testament? A dream that very conveniently greatly reduced tensions between jews and gentiles in the early christian church?? The dream only mentions food products, and that somehow overturns half of the bible?

As for catholics, the whole praying to mary, and calling her the "co-redemtrix of the world" is ludicrous. Talk about something that isn't in the bible. That and the fact the entire church blackmailed its followers through the sale of indulgences. St. Peter's Basilica was built solely on money stolen from catholic people through this false teaching. The catholic church gave up on indulgences after luther and the reformation, but they still have most of the money to this day. They are one of the richest organizations in the world, and they let their parishes close, rather than selling paintings they have stored under the vatican. Oh, and there is nothing in the bible saying pastors/preachers/fathers/church leaders have to be celibate, and that one is kinda coming back to bite the catholic church in the ass..

As for heaven/hell, from the bible, the only way into heaven is believing that jesus died for your sins, and is your savior. Some people from every religion believe this, and there are people from every religion who don't believe this. The bible is pretty clear though, that there is no other back doors into heaven.


As for me, I'll take none of it thanks. Religion is the greatest mind control ever created. It makes use of people's fear of death, which is without question the greatest fear any person has(public speaking ain't got nothin)..

Anyways, for the hell of it. How would you all feel about your kind loving God, had you been born in china, wait no too easy, how about if you had been born on an island only inhabited by headhunting tribesman. You spend your whole life doing good, you never stole, killed, raped, or in anyway hurt another person. Unfortunately nobody on the island has heard of god, or christianity. Are you doomed to burn in the eternal fires of hell?? If yes, then please explain how the omnipotent god, creator of the universe, who "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"(1st Timothy 2:4) was unable to satiate his needs. If no, then please explain how I get to heaven without believing in Jesus.

[KCALB SIRAY]

Originally Posted by jambo101

When religious/rightious people start telling me that their god is the way and mine isnt they lose me right there as there is only one god and he isnt playing religious favorites, he's within all of us no matter what religion we ascribe or not ascribe to.ya just gotta stop and listen once in a while,he's there.SDA are a fundamentalist group and they will slowly but surely destroy your relationship with your gf,unless of course you join them.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with on this, but hey, what the hell. He is right, 100%.

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

yeah if you look through all the "stories", the roots of all religions are more or less the same, the 10 commandments, more or less basic guidelines to a successful and peaceful civilization

and all those can be condensed to the even more simple:

"be excellent to each other"

Personally I'm not a religious person. I can understand the reasons for religion, there are times in my life where it would have been good to have the comfort of knowing there's something else beyond this life, some guardian angel or something... And those who cram their beliefs down others throats, I won't even comment on that.

Is there a God, is there not? I'm in no hurry to find out... But like I mentioned before there's just some things in my life that made me go hmmmm,what if?

So, Lazandro, I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, it's gotta be real uncomfortable, people can be truly blinded by faith...

I'm sure there's a passage somewhere in the Bible that says you should respect the beliefs of others... Find it, and what can she say?

Did you just quote Bill and Ted?


Anywho Laz, I'd like to sit here for an hour and go through the front and back door of all religions and the Bible, but to save you time, I'll throw this out to you. Following the Bible to its entirety requires you to take the good and the bad. If it's following the path or just falling off it, it needs to be dealt with. Not sure if SDA teaches this, but it's not always a "keep smiling" situation in every book of the Bible. Soooo, my advice is to follow what you know and believe, not what someone wants you to believe. I think you already know what you want to do in this case, and it does not mean that your relationship is going to suffer, it just means you are going to have to work at respecting each other.

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by KCALB SIRAY

Did you just quote Bill and Ted?

You cannot deny that that one phrase so well summarizes most of the 10 commandments and their equivalents in other religions...

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by KCALB SIRAY

I can't believe I'm agreeing with on this, but hey, what the hell. He is right, 100%.


Did you just quote Bill and Ted?


Anywho Laz, I'd like to sit here for an hour and go through the front and back door of all religions and the Bible, but to save you time, I'll throw this out to you. Following the Bible to its entirety requires you to take the good and the bad. If it's following the path or just falling off it, it needs to be dealt with. Not sure if SDA teaches this, but it's not always a "keep smiling" situation in every book of the Bible. Soooo, my advice is to follow what you know and believe, not what someone wants you to believe. I think you already know what you want to do in this case, and it does not mean that your relationship is going to suffer, it just means you are going to have to work at respecting each other.

I respect her, but I'm still waiting for them to respect other people's beliefs. Thanks Mike.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by supmet

The whole works vs faith thing is pretty much summed up in ephesians 4:8-9

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

Pretty much that says to me good works comes after faith, not the other way around.

My problem with the bashing on SDA, is this. 2 Timothy 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is god-breathed and useful for training, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness". Now the whole idea behind the bible is that god controlled the canonical meetings, to decide which books would be in the bible. Now the previous verse from timothy, would tell me, that any book that GOD decided to put into HIS bible, would only contain useful, pertinent scriptures, and we should follow EVERYTHING in the bible... One hallucinatory dream by peter negates the entire old testament? A dream that very conveniently greatly reduced tensions between jews and gentiles in the early christian church?? The dream only mentions food products, and that somehow overturns half of the bible?

As for catholics, the whole praying to mary, and calling her the "co-redemtrix of the world" is ludicrous. Talk about something that isn't in the bible. That and the fact the entire church blackmailed its followers through the sale of indulgences. St. Peter's Basilica was built solely on money stolen from catholic people through this false teaching. The catholic church gave up on indulgences after luther and the reformation, but they still have most of the money to this day. They are one of the richest organizations in the world, and they let their parishes close, rather than selling paintings they have stored under the vatican. Oh, and there is nothing in the bible saying pastors/preachers/fathers/church leaders have to be celibate, and that one is kinda coming back to bite the catholic church in the ass..

As for heaven/hell, from the bible, the only way into heaven is believing that jesus died for your sins, and is your savior. Some people from every religion believe this, and there are people from every religion who don't believe this. The bible is pretty clear though, that there is no other back doors into heaven.


As for me, I'll take none of it thanks. Religion is the greatest mind control ever created. It makes use of people's fear of death, which is without question the greatest fear any person has(public speaking ain't got nothin)..

Anyways, for the hell of it. How would you all feel about your kind loving God, had you been born in china, wait no too easy, how about if you had been born on an island only inhabited by headhunting tribesman. You spend your whole life doing good, you never stole, killed, raped, or in anyway hurt another person. Unfortunately nobody on the island has heard of god, or christianity. Are you doomed to burn in the eternal fires of hell?? If yes, then please explain how the omnipotent god, creator of the universe, who "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"(1st Timothy 2:4) was unable to satiate his needs. If no, then please explain how I get to heaven without believing in Jesus.

Instead of calling something ludicrous, please just say it's something you don't believe in or it's something that does not make sense to you.

I think the same thing can be said about SDA (money topic). I mean, SDA requires their followers to pay/give 10% of their income to the church. Now, I'm sorry, but that is WAY more than how much I know people in my Church donate. To me, I believe that a church should accept donations and not mandate anything to be given.

Now, for the Heaven topic, if that is the case and it says that in the Bible, I wonder why my gf and them are so strict about doing the other many things that the Bible says since "it will get them into Heaven."

hahaha, I actually thought about that before, that religion is here to control people and make them live in fear. But I try not to.

I personally won't think someone is going to hell if they do not believe in it in the first place (going along with your tribe example).

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Instead of calling something ludicrous, please just say it's something you don't believe in or it's something that does not make sense to you.

I think the same thing can be said about SDA (money topic). I mean, SDA requires their followers to pay/give 10% of their income to the church. Now, I'm sorry, but that is WAY more than how much I know people in my Church donate. To me, I believe that a church should accept donations and not mandate anything to be given.

lol, there's stuff about tithing ALL over the bible. Not once does it say mary saved the world.

FWIW, you can call anything I believe in ludicrous - and PLEASE do. If it were to make me insecure or bother me, than my faith in whatever you are ridiculing must be unfounded, and I would thank you for the epiphany

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by supmet

lol, there's stuff about tithing ALL over the bible. Not once does it say mary saved the world.

FWIW, you can call anything I believe in ludicrous - and PLEASE do. If it were to make me insecure or bother me, than my faith in whatever you are ridiculing must be unfounded, and I would thank you for the epiphany

I try not to call others' beliefs ludicrous since that would be going against what I believe people should do. Well, this pertains to things like giving 10% of your income to your church. But if your belief is to kill everyone who doesn't follow what you believe in, then I'll flat out call that ludicrous. Like I said, everyone has their own beliefs and we all should respect each other in that sense.