Yaris Sedan Deadening and Sound system upgrade

[sqcomp]

You have to remember that I'm even a little more on axis that your pictures with your mids. I have mine aimed out into the cabin (about 15 to 20 degrees). Instead of sacrificing center channel image by going totally on axis to the driver's ears, or having spot on center channel image is what you get when firing straight across like you have it (and how I had it up top in the A-pillars) but not being able to stretch the boundaries of the stage width and inaging the stage about an inch lower...

I decided to fall somewhere in the center. by bringing the speakers a little more on axis and angling them up just a little I felt that it was a happy medium for all the factors combined.

I felt my stage (coming from the pillar level) only lost about an inch or two of height...it's on the dash still. It has the center image referenced off the three voice narrative track from the IASCA disc, as well as the ability to dial down instead of increase the midrange (on axis benefits) with amplitude and or frequency if needed.

The tweeters are still going to be up in the pillars but sunk into within 1/2" of the glass in back of the pillars facing up toward the mirror. THAT with crossover settings takes the stage up higher.

Here's the test. Turn off the tweeters and run your mids up from oh 175 Hz passed out to 20 kHz. Time align them if you'd like, I recommend it even with improved PLDs. Tell me where the level of the stage is and why you think it's there.

We're still playing with speakers like you do in home...except in a much more confined space. The aiming is similar but you can really play with reflections in our environment a lot more. I'm also setting up for a two seat judging platform in the future (once I get the sub up front in the glove box).

[derickveliz2]

I had in my car a person who goes to live concerts every 2 weeks, these are traditional Marimba concerts, so she gave me a CD to try it out...

With the IDQ12 in the trunk, she said "Sounds really good, crisp, sharp and clear" then...

I unplugged the 12" woofer and connected the 6.5 woofer up front... and played the CD again, asking her... if she could tell the difference:
"WOW!" she yield, "now sounds like the real thing!...all coming from the front, like if I was at the concert right in front of the band" she said.

Made my day... so I went back to the drawing board and build baffles for the MIDs to test them in the a-frame (kick area)... Impressions later on! good news for my 3-way system...

D.

[sqcomp]

^I like that!

I may try the I10SW in the glovebox area if I don't like the 15" up there.

BTW, did your friend give you the CD? Did you get a chance to burn it?

[patm]

Marimba CD, sounds good.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

^I like that!

I may try the I10SW in the glovebox area if I don't like the 15" up there.

BTW, did your friend give you the CD? Did you get a chance to burn it?

Me too!

I heard the I10SW needs more than 0.6+cu.ft. of internal volume is that right?

I'm thinking in the future 2 I6SW's the downside will be the bigger box or an 8 inch. who knows? one sounds so good, but it's just like money... you just want more and more!

Yes I do have the CD.

D.

[sqcomp]

IIRC, Scott is releasing the I10SW on December 15th.

[derickveliz2]

I had to do the inspection sticker...
I heard one of the guys... "it won't pass... tinted windows, too low"... and some thing else?

VIDEO LINK

...

[sqcomp]

^ What's up with that?

What kind of inspection are these yahoos doing? I know out here the only inspection we have is a air quality inpection of the ECU. My blood pressure rises when I hear about government telling me I can't customize my vehicle...

Also, I've got the kick pods roughed in. I'm actually thinking about finishing them well enough to be painted the OEM color of the car. I have pics BUT I still want to get farther down the road before I post.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

^ What's up with that?

What kind of inspection are these yahoos doing? I know out here the only inspection we have is a air quality inpection of the ECU. My blood pressure rises when I hear about government telling me I can't customize my vehicle...

The usual stuff, 35% tinted windows, 4 inches off the ground, and all the safety and operation of your vehicle, besides that some places just want to give a hard time more than others, but Toyota's reputation it's easy to pass.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Also, I've got the kick pods roughed in. I'm actually thinking about finishing them well enough to be painted the OEM color of the car. I have pics BUT I still want to get farther down the road before I post.

I got a little over 2,000 miles testing the MIDs in the kick area...

1.- AWESOME much better than the MIDs on the a-pillars (will expand on this later)
2.- The image is rock solid in the center and above the dashboard
3.- Stage is high 4-6 inches above HU and pushed forward about 6-8 inches
4.- Stage is wide, love it!

It's time to start playing with 15 degrees up and towards listener.

Even though we spent so much time and effort doing our mids in the a-pillars the experience it's worth what we learn here.

I never even imagine that the MIDS down there in the Kick area would make my system so much better; I guess PLDs are some thing SQ enthusiasts need to put more attention and make it part of the equation for a great system.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

I got a little over 2,000 miles testing the MIDs in the kick area...

1.- AWESOME much better than the MIDs on the a-pillars (will expand on this later)


D.

Originally Posted by derickveliz

"Symmetric Dashboard"

That is the only reason why I'm trying my MIDS on the a-pillars and take advantage of the cavernous dash/windshield of the Yaris's symmetrical dashboard, other wise the MIDS would go down in the kick area for my SQ install.

If I had to start all over, I would go with a 4" MID in the kick panels with a tweeter on the a-pillars for SQ install.

NO MORE MIDs TO SHOW OFF IN THE A-PILLARS:

OK, so after many hours of testing I can't show-off my MIDS in the a-pillars any more, in the name of SQ and trying to improve my audio system

"my MIDs are now in the a-frame, down in the kick area..." why?

PLDs is the answer, now my stage is wider, deeper and as high as with the MIDs in a-pillars, my image is solid, every thing is way much better, T/A was much easier to nail in too. At least in my Yaris works that way because the distance between my my ears to the apillars is shorter than the distance between my ears to the a-frame (kick area). see image below...

I know, it's hard to believe. Before I swear for the MIDs in the a-pillars, and I just didn't believe the MIDs would play so good in the kick area. Some one told me, some one else suggested mi the MIDs in the a-frame and I didn't listen, now I know by trail and error what sounds better for me in the name of SQ.






D.

[sqcomp]

There's something you touched on though...

"Stage is high 4-6 inches above HU"

Thats in the cluster. The stage "needs" to be above the cluster. This is where the mids in the pillars shined...physical location gave spectacular height (at least in my application). What you're going to find is the give and take of physics. Now, I sincerely think we can raise the stage with angling speakers AND crossover slopes, points, phasing, and amplitude adjustments.

The downside of the pillars is the width, like you mentioned.

Remember, the goal is to get the stage ALL in front of you on the dash or even farther out onto the hood.

bad teaser pics:

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

There's something you touched on though...

"Stage is high 4-6 inches above HU"

Thats in the cluster. The stage "needs" to be above the cluster. This is where the mids in the pillars shined...physical location gave spectacular height (at least in my application). What you're going to find is the give and take of physics.

Remember, the goal is to get the stage ALL in front of you on the dash or even farther out onto the hood.

bad teaser pics:

Ok, maybe I'm using the wrong terms, when I say Stage is 4-6 inches above HU, what I mean is that in a song the singer is right there.

Yes the stage is ALL in front of me, it's fantastic and some times unreal (what I mean is that sounds so good 3D-dimensional speaking) Some songs shine better than others bringing the stage farther out on the hood, some of the tracks from FOCAL JMLab Tools CD - 01 - Technical Tracks play just FANTASTIC!

From your pictures, aren't you making the stage "not as wide" by placing the MIDs in this position? See my graph Option 2, and Option 1 where by sinking the MIDs in the A-frame you gain a little bit more width!

I know it's a trade in, a give and take like you said; so far I've been testing my MIDs like Option 1 and it's pretty good, I'm going to angle them a little bit and test some more, but I don't feel like it's going to be as much like you have...








D.

[sqcomp]

Not as wide? Meh...physically yes, by a couple inches. What I'm gaining is frequency response by being more on axis.

I feel that in my listening tests I was able to be deep and to the mirrors which is my goal. That was without ANY EQ/amplitude tweaks. I feel that we're both on the right track. I don't want to cut into the metal (it's just a peeve of mine). We simply have slight differences with similar layouts.

I am excited to get the tweeters up in the deep end of the pillars!

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Not as wide? Meh...physically yes, by a couple inches. What I'm gaining is frequency response by being more on axis.

I feel that in my listening tests I was able to be deep and to the mirrors which is my goal. That was without ANY EQ/amplitude tweaks. I feel that we're both on the right track. I don't want to cut into the metal (it's just a peeve of mine). We simply have slight differences with similar layouts.

I am excited to get the tweeters up in the deep end of the pillars!

I agree, we are on the right track! for sure.

Cutting the a-frame was a piece of cake with my old dremel. but good enough for a 3 inch speaker, L4 SE's mmm it would be hard.



After reading your previous posts, I went back with a ruler and some tuning in mind...

Ok, the Image is 2-3 inches above the cluster. almost hitting the windshield;
I put a little toy up there and it feels like they toy is singing to me! jeje you know my analogies are from the kid that lives inside of me.

I was thinking about the tweeters too, sounds like a lot of work, but it may be worth the dust and sanding involved.

D.

[derickveliz2]

I really need to go out and Fly a Plane...

LINK


D.

[sqcomp]

I'm working with the Dremel as well...

...still can't bring myself to cut into metal...

What are you thinking about the tweeters? I'm sinking mine in real deep into the pillars aiming up towards the rear view mirror.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

What are you thinking about the tweeters? I'm sinking mine in real deep into the pillars aiming up towards the rear view mirror.

I have some crazy ideas but still have plenty of time to think about them!

My to do list goes like this:

-Finish MIDs in kick area

-Finish HAT L6s in doors

-Do some more deadening

-TWEETERS....

-Play with a 3rd amp and have the IDQ12 in IB configuration in the trunk, working at very very low freq.

-ETC, ETC, ETC...


D.