CBS didn't stop Andy Rooney

[why?]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

I think it's also a case of making up for the inequality they've been subjected to years before (slavery, anyone?).

i've never owned a slave, nor has anyone i've ever been related to. Why should I be forced to pay for something that happened centuries before I was born?

Not to mention these programs do anything but help the people the are supposedly for. What they really do is let them know it is ok to fail and worse, it gives them a ready made reason for failure.

Everyone is born in the USA with an equal chance to do well. After that it is up to each individual.

All you need to do is look at some of the most famous celebrities and then look at where they came from, and then you'll realize anyone can do anything if they put the effort in.

What we need to do? How about listen to MLK and start living that colorblind society he dreamed about. That is a great first step that still hasn't even come close to happening.

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by why?

i've never owned a slave, nor has anyone i've ever been related to. Why should I be forced to pay for something that happened centuries before I was born?

Not to mention these programs do anything but help the people the are supposedly for. What they really do is let them know it is ok to fail and worse, it gives them a ready made reason for failure.

Everyone is born in the USA with an equal chance to do well. After that it is up to each individual.

All you need to do is look at some of the most famous celebrities and then look at where they came from, and then you'll realize anyone can do anything if they put the effort in.

What we need to do? How about listen to MLK and start living that colorblind society he dreamed about. That is a great first step that still hasn't even come close to happening.

That is a simplistic, idyllic view of our society.

First off, there are never enough jobs to go around in the best of times.
Given the fact that the sys/ government has allowed (and encouraged with tax incentives) millions of jobs to shipped elswhere to line the pockets of the rich at the expense of the working class, I charge that the sys/government is at least partly responsible for the jobless.

Eveyone can't be on top and our society can only function with the majority on the bottom of the economic scale.
Shure there are some who will take advantage of anything but, the vast majority who apply for it really need some sort public assistance.

Now we have a president who is a champion of the working class, a class that has been raped for far too long, is the very backbone of any society and he is called everthing from the "anti Christ to Hittler etc

This "I got mine so, screw you " attitude in not only unChristian but, it can detrimential to a society as a whole.

BTW, I am 62 yrs old an have worked steady since I was 13 yrs old not only beacuse I have a work ethic, but I have also been very lucky that I am still physically fit and was always able to find good paying job with adequate health insurance.
I acknowledge that many are not so lucky.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

That is a simplistic, idyllic view of our society.

Fist off, there are never enough jobs to go around in the best of times.
Given the fact that the sys/ government has allowed (and encouraed with tax incentives) millions of jobs to shipped elswhere to line the pockets of the rich at the expense of the working class, I charge that the sys/government is at least partly responsible for the jobless.

Eveyone can't be on top and our society can only function with the majority on the bottom of the economic scale.
Shure there are some who will take advantage of anything but, the vast majority who apply for it really need some sort public assistance.

Now we have a president who is a champion of the working class, a class that has been raped for far too long, is the very backbone of any society and he is called everthing from the "anti Christ to Hittler etc

This "I got mine so, screw you " attitude in not only unChristian but, it can detrimential to a society as a whole.

BTW, I am 62 yrs old an have worked steady since I was 13 yrs old not only beacuse I have a work ethic, but I have also been very lucky that I am still physically fit and was always able to find good paying a job.
Some are not so lucky.

How is the President a champion of the working class? Wealth redistribution does NOT help the working class. Guess what, confiscating more from businesses and the wealthy destroys jobs. The jobs the working class count on. And programs/entitlements only reduce drive and motivation to earn your own way. That will lead to an America that will no longer be a leader in prosperity, innovation, charity, freedom and liberty.

Health reform, upcoming Cap and Trade (God help us), and other government programs do NOT help the working class. These programs and huge new taxes will cripple the working class. Health care costs are now going to skyrocket as they have done in my state of Massachusetts (ever since we started this similar model they just passed for the rest of the country). We pay, by far, the most for health care in the country now. And there are now doctor shortages. Thing is, this health care bill is even far, far worse because it institutes huge government controls and penalties. Millions of jobs will be lost over the next decade just from health care "reform" alone. What do people really think happens when "rich" businesses get huge tax hikes? It's usually a combination of job layoffs and passing costs on to consumers.

Yeah, this will be great for the working class.

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

How is the President a champion of the working class? Wealth redistribution does NOT help the working class. Guess what, confiscating more from businesses and the wealthy destroys jobs. The jobs the working class count on. And programs/entitlements only reduce drive and motivation to earn your own way. That will lead to an America that will no longer be a leader in prosperity, innovation, charity, freedom and liberty.

Health reform, upcoming Cap and Trade (God help us), and other government programs do NOT help the working class. These programs and huge new taxes will cripple the working class. Health care costs are now going to skyrocket as they have done in my state of Massachusetts (ever since we started this similar model they just passed for the rest of the country). We pay, by far, the most for health care in the country now. And there are now doctor shortages. Thing is, this health care bill is even far, far worse because it institutes huge government controls and penalties. Millions of jobs will be lost over the next decade just from health care "reform" alone. What do people really think happens when "rich" businesses get huge tax hikes? It's usually a combination of job layoffs and passing costs on to consumers.

Yeah, this will be great for the working class.

Wealth re-distribution you say ? Just WTF do you call the biggest transfer of wealth in history from the 90% working middle class to to the top 10% of the richest under Bush, and his failed trickle down economic policies?

There is no employer who will hire a worker simply becaouse you give them money via tax brakes etc. An employer wiil only hire a new woker if they absolulty need one because buisnes is that good and working existing workers overtime wiil not meet demand, not out of some goodnees of their heart as some suggest they will. Buisnesses boom when the masses (the middle, working class) have disposible income to pay for their products and services.

After WWII, the US made about 90% of the world's products. Now, we only make about 10% of our own products. Anyone who doesn't seee this as a major problem is not paying attention to reality.

As far as health reform, name one "penality that wiil be imposed.
The fact is, there is absolutly no penalty for not getting health insurance as the tax for not getting it is actually voluntary and the law specificaly states that there will be absolutly no penalty for not paying it.

Also, there are some new tax incentives for supplying health insurance and there are many cases where it will actually cost businesses less than it now does.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

Wealth re-distribution you say ? Just WTF do you call the biggest transfer of wealth in history from the 90% working middle class to to the top 10% of the richest under Bush, and his failed trickle down economic policies?

There is no employer who will hire a worker simply becaouse you give them money via tax brakes etc. An employer wiil only hire a new woker if they absolulty need one because buisnes is that good, not out of some goodnees of their heart as some suggest they will. Buisnesses boom when the masses (the middle, working class) have disposible income to pay for their products and services.

After WWII, the US made about 90% of the world's products. Now, we only make about 10% of our own products. Anyone who doesn't seee this as a major problem is not paying attention to reality.

As far as health reform, name one "penality that wiil be imposed.
The fact is, there is absolutly no penalty for not getting health insurance as the tax for not getting it is actually voluntary and the law specificaly states that there will be absolutly no penalty for not paying it.

Also, there are some new tax incentives for supplying health insurance and there are many cases where it will actually cost businesses less than it now does.

Wealth redistribution is government forced redistribution from the wealthy to the poor (the very definition of Marxism). What you describe, if accurate, is the free market working. It is the best and brightest working hard and earning to their potential. They should be congratulated, not punished for their success. BTW, the bottom 47% of Americans pay NO federal income tax. We are already redistributing plenty to them. Shall we just send them bigger checks as reward for not earning their own way?

As for your assessment on health reform, you're suggesting you don't have to pay the penalty fees for not buying insurance. It's not what Obama, Pelosi, Reed, and the rest of them have been saying. They've not even denied imprisonment, when asked, as a penalty for not buying insurance. So explain to me this. How will the system work if you don't have to buy insurance, you don't have to pay penalties, and you can't ever be denied coverage even with preexisting conditions? A mathematical and fiscal miracle? Cool!!! Sign me up!

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Wealth redistribution is government forced redistribution from the wealthy to the poor (the very definition of Marxism). What you describe, if accurate, is the free market working. It is the best and brightest working hard and earning to their potential. They should be congratulated, not punished for their success. BTW, the bottom 47% of Americans pay NO federal income tax. We are already redistributing plenty to them. Shall we just send them bigger checks as reward for not earning their own way?

As for your assessment on health reform, you're suggesting you don't have to pay the penalty fees for not buying insurance. It's not what Obama, Pelosi, Reed, and the rest of them have been saying. They've not even denied imprisonment, when asked, as a penalty for not buying insurance. So explain to me this. How will the system work if you don't have to buy insurance, you don't have to pay penalties, and you can't ever be denied coverage even with preexisting conditions? A mathematical and fiscal miracle? Cool!!! Sign me up!

Have you even read an accurate transcript of the law that pertains to the tax penalty?

I do not get my info from lying, fear merchants who get filthy rich misrepresenting the truth.

BTW the majority of the 47% you mentioned includes workers who can only find part time work or are full time workers earning minimumum wage supporting a family and are below the so called poverty level .

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by RedRide

Have you even read an accurate transcript of the law that pertains to the tax penalty?

I do not get my info from lying,fear merchants who get filthy rich misrepresenting the truth.

Should I not be listening to what Obama is telling us? He clearly told us that the tax penalty is there, otherwise the system wouldn't work. His words.

You're avoiding what I asked you. So how will it all work out if no one has to pay anything but they receive everything they need?