Shifting without the clutch

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by SAV912

If you rev'd to 5K and tried shoving it into gear (because it wouldn't just slot right in), it wouldn't go in unless you forced it. If you succeed in forcing it, that's where the wear on your synchros and gear grinding comes in. Hence why the people above mentioned why you have to be absolutely spot on with your rev-matching.

Now if you know that 60 mph is about 4K in 3rd gear (I wouldn't know for sure, my Yaris doesn't have a tach) and held the car at exactly this engine speed in neutral with the gas pedal, then yes. The gear lever should slot right into 3rd gear with no problem. This action of being correct is not really a problem. It's much easier to upshift without the clutch than it is to downshift. It's the fact that every single human being will eventually blip the throttle wrong, mis-shift and force it in, causing excess wear on the synchros since the gear speed and output shaft speed are not correctly matched. Forcing it all the way in will just get gears grinding, just as what happens when missing a shift like we all did once upon a time when we were noob stickshift drivers.

Bottom line, you can try it and you can even become good at it. But that doesn't change the fact that our cars come with clutch pedals for a reason.

-SAV

Well, some cars come with other crap nobody ever use sometimes.

Sorry of my questions seem like I'm trying to prove you wrong. I'm just trying to figure it out.

Btw, the gear accepts the shifter because its the right RPM range. Theres no grinding as it goes it. It just goes POP and takes it in. And only at the right RPM range, consistently.

Now, you may be right, but I think its kinda hard to mis shift w/o the clutch, seeing as the gates won't open if you're at the wrong speed range.

Anyways, long story short. Syncros are used to match difference in speeds on the clutch and the different gears. But if you go clutch-less, and use the engine to act as syncros, how would that put wear on the syncros?

[Yaris Hilton]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

But if you go clutch-less, and use the engine to act as syncros, how would that put wear on the syncros?

Because you're not going to perfectly match the speed, and the synchro has a bigger job matching the transmission input shaft plus the massive flywheel and rotating assembly of the engine than just the free floating input shaft and friction disc of the disengaged clutch.

But if you think you can do it better without the clutch than with it, go ahead, wear it out. Don't come back here later complaining about Toyota's low quality transmission that tore up.

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

Because you're not going to perfectly match the speed, and the synchro has a bigger job matching the transmission input shaft plus the massive flywheel and rotating assembly of the engine than just the free floating input shaft and friction disc of the disengaged clutch.

But if you think you can do it better without the clutch than with it, go ahead, wear it out. Don't come back here later complaining about Toyota's low quality transmission that tore up.

Shiet.... that makes total sense. Thats all I needed to know. Don't get all mad at me.

[Yaris Hilton]

I'm not mad at you.

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

I'm not mad at you.

Ok. Cause what you said made total sense, not just, "ITS BAD CAUSE I SAY SO, AND U CAN DO IT AND RUIN EVERYTHING AND U SUCK KTNKSBYE."

[SAV912]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

Btw, the gear accepts the shifter because its the right RPM range. Theres no grinding as it goes it. It just goes POP and takes it in. And only at the right RPM range, consistently.

That 'pop' right there is wear on the synchros. If you do it EXACTLY correct, it slides right in with no noise whatsoever. The 'popping' noise is the synchros acting against the force of the shifter sliding into place without the use of the clutch pedal and this action is what wears them out. Sooner or later, you'll get grinds when shifting even when you do use the clutch pedal. Think Honda's 6-speed manual problems in the Acura RSX and Honda Civic Si. I'm not a fan of my shit popping out of gear under normal usage/acceleration, so that's why I'm not a fan of constant clutchless shifting.

-SAV

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by SAV912

That 'pop' right there is wear on the synchros. If you do it EXACTLY correct, it slides right in with no noise whatsoever. The 'popping' noise is the synchros acting against the force of the shifter sliding into place without the use of the clutch pedal and this action is what wears them out. Sooner or later, you'll get grinds when shifting even when you do use the clutch pedal. Think Honda's 6-speed manual problems in the Acura RSX and Honda Civic Si. I'm not a fan of my shit popping out of gear under normal usage/acceleration, so that's why I'm not a fan of constant clutchless shifting.

-SAV

Oh, I didn't mean it went POP. I meant as in, it just pops in there.