tooter's manifold adventure...

[tooter]

Namer convinced me not to mess with my header. Anyways, I like the Weapon R design and so will be leaving it as it is. I do have some more experimental intake manifold ideas that I want to see what happens if I do them. It's like following a tiny silver thread and you never know where it leads.

[4/20 NEVER FORGET]

I was also going to guess exhaust... but with you living in Los Angeles, I imagine you cannot even think about messing with the catalytic converters without fear of the man breaking down your door.

I'm about to move to a full 2.25" header-back exhaust using a OBX exhaust system as a base along with a single 2.25" magnaflow cat, 2.25" magnaflow resonator and 2.25" magnaflow muffler. I've also been thinking about buying another DC header and having the collector modified to 2.25", being that it is 2" now. I know there is more HP in there if the exhaust system can get freed up a little more. 2" seems so small for a collector on these headers, all of the 1.6L Honda's I worked on were either 2.25" or 2.5".

Either way, I need to find a shop to get this thing dyno'd so I can get a baseline. Thanks for so diligently getting your car dyno'd, it's great to see actually numbers instead of 'seat of the pants' reviews on stuff.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by 4/20 NEVER FORGET

I was also going to guess exhaust... but with you living in Los Angeles, I imagine you cannot even think about messing with the catalytic converters without fear of the man breaking down your door.

You're right. I want to keep it smog testable. The way it is now, I can still run everything the way it is and simply stick on the stock airbox...



...and it'll smog test just fine.

I'm about to move to a full 2.25" header-back exhaust using a OBX exhaust system as a base along with a single 2.25" magnaflow cat, 2.25" magnaflow resonator and 2.25" magnaflow muffler. I've also been thinking about buying another DC header and having the collector modified to 2.25", being that it is 2" now. I know there is more HP in there if the exhaust system can get freed up a little more. 2" seems so small for a collector on these headers, all of the 1.6L Honda's I worked on were either 2.25" or 2.5".

Either way, I need to find a shop to get this thing dyno'd so I can get a baseline. Thanks for so diligently getting your car dyno'd, it's great to see actually numbers instead of 'seat of the pants' reviews on stuff.

Yes. A baseline is valuable information. A dyno is the only way to know exactly what's going on.

The graphs are honest and all done under the same conditions. Nothing was done to either enhance or diminish the results. I did three stock baseline runs, three with the tooter alone, and three with the tooter and the 1ZZ throttle body, and posted the best run from each set.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by JustDidIt

Wonder how it would handle a good AEM FIC tune. :)

Harry, at HK Motorsports dyno shop suggested tuning would increase the power but I won't be doing that. It already does good enough with the stock tune and regular pump gas... and I still want it to be able to pass the smog test. So I'll leave that for someone else to experiment.

[cali yaris]

^ Hopefully you'll pass visual. It does look stock, but it isn't, and technically should not pass.

But hey, it's a 2012 right? You have at least five more years I think. I haven't had to smog my '07 yet!

[tooter]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

^ Hopefully you'll pass visual. It does look stock, but it isn't, and technically should not pass.

But hey, it's a 2012 right? You have at least five more years I think. I haven't had to smog my '07 yet!

I have a good smog guy I've gone to for years who is a fellow veteran. If there are no lights or codes and the tail pipe emissions are good. It'll pass for sure. Even with all the crazy stuff I've tried, It's still never triggered a CEL light, except one time I forgot to plug in the MAF sensor.

[why?]

so absurd you can't pass smog with mods. where is the scca on that front?

[tooter]

Originally Posted by why?

so absurd you can't pass smog with mods. where is the scca on that front?

As long as there are no codes generated by the computer, the fuel vapor recovery system works properly, and the tailpipe sniffer smells clean exhaust... it'll pass.

[malibuguy]

Originally Posted by 4/20 NEVER FORGET

I was also going to guess exhaust... but with you living in Los Angeles, I imagine you cannot even think about messing with the catalytic converters without fear of the man breaking down your door.

I'm about to move to a full 2.25" header-back exhaust using a OBX exhaust system as a base along with a single 2.25" magnaflow cat, 2.25" magnaflow resonator and 2.25" magnaflow muffler. I've also been thinking about buying another DC header and having the collector modified to 2.25", being that it is 2" now. I know there is more HP in there if the exhaust system can get freed up a little more. 2" seems so small for a collector on these headers, all of the 1.6L Honda's I worked on were either 2.25" or 2.5".

Either way, I need to find a shop to get this thing dyno'd so I can get a baseline. Thanks for so diligently getting your car dyno'd, it's great to see actually numbers instead of 'seat of the pants' reviews on stuff.

I work on A LOT of hondas. Most of the header outlets are 2". Even for a b18 teggy I worked on last tuesday. Dont let the small collector fool you. 2" is just about perfect for our motors. You want the exhaust gases to be at a high velocity when leaving the motor. The stronger the pulse...the stronger the vacuum behind that pulse. Thats what makes power. The larger the pipe the weaker the pulse strength would be and it will be traveling at a slower rate

[baseballfan416]

I may be late to the show but...

I think there's still hp left on the table. Looks like the 108 whp is just about every bolt-on mod aside from the crank pulley, which is considered by many to be the best "bang for the buck."

[tooter]

Originally Posted by baseballfan416

I may be late to the show but...

I think there's still hp left on the table. Looks like the 108 whp is just about every bolt-on mod aside from the crank pulley, which is considered by many to be the best "bang for the buck."

I don't believe that the pluses outweigh the minuses in that regard, as I don't think it's a good idea to remove something from an engine that provides the useful purpose of absorbing crankshaft vibrations.

[4/20 NEVER FORGET]

Originally Posted by malibuguy

I work on A LOT of hondas. Most of the header outlets are 2". Even for a b18 teggy I worked on last tuesday. Dont let the small collector fool you. 2" is just about perfect for our motors. You want the exhaust gases to be at a high velocity when leaving the motor. The stronger the pulse...the stronger the vacuum behind that pulse. Thats what makes power. The larger the pipe the weaker the pulse strength would be and it will be traveling at a slower rate

Good to know. What do you think of my plan of going to 2.25" piping/cats/resonator throughout on the exhaust? It's what my old D16 civics ran and it seemed like a good size.

Also tooter, do you still have the 1.75" exhaust piping after the factory resonator still in place? It might be worth paying the small amount to have that replaced with a 2" or 2.25" back to the axle-back.

Also, I recently replaced my crank pulley with a MI crank pulley and I didn't notice much if any change in engine output. I did notice however that the car is easier to drive, matching revs and such. For having nothing but manual transmission cars my entire life, I drive my Yaris somewhat jerky. I would say I drive the car a bit smoother now as I go through the gears. Eventually I plan on getting a lightened flywheel, I've had them in multiple cars in the past and it makes a huge difference in the car.

[baseballfan416]

Originally Posted by tooter

I don't believe that the pluses outweigh the minuses in that regard, as I don't think it's a good idea to remove something from an engine that provides the useful purpose of absorbing crankshaft vibrations.

If it's a horrible idea, why did Garm spend R&D building them?

[tooter]

Originally Posted by baseballfan416

If it's a horrible idea, why did Garm spend R&D building them?

I didn't say it's "horrible"... you said that. I only said that there are pluses and minuses for each pulley. Each Yaris owner chooses for themselves which part best meets their needs and wants.

When each cylinder chamber fires the force is transmitted through the piston down the connecting rod to the crankshaft. This force is not applied smoothly, but is a series of pushes.

So when the crankshaft rotates from the cylinder pulses, the rubber connecting ring between the center of the pulley and the outer section allows the center to alternately rotate momentarily faster and slower than inertial weight of the outer section which rotates more smoothly. This helps to absorb the crank vibrations to make the engine run smoother.

In high performance engines under racing conditions, this is not a consideration. So parts are engineered to meet high performance racing oriented priorities.

[why?]

except that is not the case. That was the case in the 60's, and is still the case today in some larger v-8's, but it is in no way the case in a modern 4 cylinder engine.

Have you taken a look at the Yaris' pulley? There is basically no rubber on it at all. A modern 4 cylinder engine is balanced internally, that is the engine itself is harmonically balanced, and it does not need external harmonic dampeners of any type.

how many millions of problem free miles do aftermarket pulleys need for this talk to finally be buried like the falsity it is?

[tooter]

Originally Posted by why?

except that is not the case. That was the case in the 60's, and is still the case today in some larger v-8's, but it is in no way the case in a modern 4 cylinder engine.

Have you taken a look at the Yaris' pulley? There is basically no rubber on it at all. A modern 4 cylinder engine is balanced internally, that is the engine itself is harmonically balanced, and it does not need external harmonic dampeners of any type.

how many millions of problem free miles do aftermarket pulleys need for this talk to finally be buried like the falsity it is?

Thanks for the info, why.

I didn't know that the stock Yaris pulley was solid metal. So then it doesn't matter what you run.

[Golddeenoh]

a popular 4 cylinder factory balancing technique is to use balance shafts the are driven by the timing chain and turn in the opposite direction of the crank shaft. I'am not aware of any newer 4 cylinder engine that require external crank shaft dampening.

I'm with Why, there is no dampener pulleys on new age 4 cylinder engines.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by Golddeenoh

a popular 4 cylinder factory balancing technique is to use balance shafts the are driven by the timing chain and turn in the opposite direction of the crank shaft. I'am not aware of any newer 4 cylinder engine that require external crank shaft dampening.

I'm with Why, there is no dampener pulleys on new age 4 cylinder engines.

Tell you the truth, I've never looked closely at mine to see whether or not it had any rubber in it. I believe that my 4 stroke single cylinder motorcycle has a counter rotating balancing shaft because it runs pretty smooth for a one lunger that only fires once every other rotation.

Now you guys got me all curious, so I took an inspection mirror and actually looked at my pulley. It's got a rubber dampening strip in it. Maybe the 2012's are third gen that they have them now. I also found a pic of one like mine. It looks exactly like this...