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03-02-2014, 03:57 PM | #1 |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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07 cranks, won't start--no fuel?...
Hi folks,
I'm hoping to tap into the collective wisdom here. I have an 07 Yaris that I bought new. We've put 170,000 miles on it so far and it has been trouble-free except for routine maintenance (oil/filters, tires, plugs @ 120K mi, etc.). Friday we all got in (wife/kids and I usually carpool) and it started as usual, but then sputtered and died not a block out of the driveway. Engine cranks strong--I replaced the battery less than a year ago. I also checked for spark at the plugs with a spark plug tester-- I have spark. So it must be fuel. I thought I might have just run it out of fuel, even though the fuel gauge is showing 2 bars, so I put 5 gallons in. Still nothing--cranks hard, but not firing. I should also note here that it is STILL SHOWING ONLY 2 BARS on the fuel gauge (it should be at least half full!). To verify that it is a fuel problem, I shot some starting fluid in the throttle body intake--turn the key and, sure enough, it fires right up and will run for a few seconds on the ether. I have since pulled the fuel pump and bench tested it by hooking up directly to a 6A 12V source; pump whirred to life and the remaining fuel in the sump began squirting out the outlet, so it looks like I'm OK there. Also, I hooked up an Ohmeter to the leads for the float, and it shows smoothly varying resistance through its range of travel (from about 80 with float at lowest level down to 0-10 at highest). So this must be electrical, right? I have checked and re-checked the fuses (in the engine compartment panel) and can't find ANY that are blown? So is it a relay? Is there one that controls the fuel pump/ sending unit? Any thoughts at all on where I should be looking next will be greatly appreciated? (I would love to get this car up and running without dropping any $$ at the dealership!) Oh, and one more thing I should note: hooked up an OBD code scanner and no codes are showing up (check engine light NOT on when ignition in on position). |
03-02-2014, 05:07 PM | #2 | |
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Quote:
It sounds like the relay that controls the fuel pump is not firing. Did you verify that the fuel pump is not receiving power when you turn the ignition on?
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03-02-2014, 05:09 PM | #3 |
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Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB Join Date: Oct 2008
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By the way, check out this thread for more info. The fuel pump relay is integrated into the body ECU, which is the under-dash fuse panel / junction box:
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45663
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03-02-2014, 05:14 PM | #4 |
Drives: 06 Polar White 5dr, 13 Soul 4u Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Georgetown, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,762
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Cold in Indiana? Ice in fuel line? Happened to me once many, many years ago.
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03-02-2014, 05:37 PM | #5 | ||
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Quote:
So, if it is the fuel pump relay in the body ECU, does that mean I need to replace the body ECU? Any thoughts on how difficult/ expensive a task that is? Thanks guys for your speedy replies! |
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03-02-2014, 05:47 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
If it is indeed the bad relay, replacing the body ECU is a bit of a hassle because of all of the connections to it and the fact that you really need to remove the dash top to get to it properly. A replacement is over $600 from Toyota, but used ones are much more reasonable. I have 3 or 4 on hand, but you would need to verify the part number on the sticker on the back of yours or shoot me your VIN via PM and I can tell you which one your car needs.
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03-02-2014, 06:38 PM | #7 | ||||
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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Scott,
I read through the thread you linked to and started doing the checks you indicated: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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BTW, to verify my ohmmeter is reading properly, my readings on the fuel tank sending unit were about 80-90 w/ float at lowest, and 0 w/ float at highest (sound about right?) Thanks for walking me through all of this--you are a life saver! |
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03-02-2014, 06:44 PM | #8 |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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PS--I left the pump out while I did these checks, don't know if that would make a difference (I'll go stick the pump back in and run them again since I know now the pump is good).
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03-02-2014, 07:17 PM | #9 |
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Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB Join Date: Oct 2008
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It's OK that you did it with the pump out. The zero volt reading on the output of the relay contact says that the relay is bad. The gentleman in the other thread just shipped his bad one to me this past week, so I will soon have it in hand to determine the cause of the failure. Considering that the relay coil is good, I suspect that I am going to find that the problem is not the relay, but rather a circuit board trace that was not properly sized and eventually failed.
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03-02-2014, 07:28 PM | #10 | |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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Update:
Quote:
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03-02-2014, 07:37 PM | #11 |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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Update (again)
Just put the pump back in, and turned the key on to see if I could now hear it running. No sound from the pump w/ key on, but fuel gauge is now flashing empty! |
03-02-2014, 08:15 PM | #12 |
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Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB Join Date: Oct 2008
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Try jumping the 4A-8 and 4B-11 black wires together and see if the fuel pump runs.
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03-02-2014, 09:08 PM | #13 |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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OK, did it-- it DOES run when the key is in the ON position.
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03-02-2014, 09:15 PM | #14 |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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Well, this is getting stranger and stranger. I had disconnected the battery (before I jumped 4A-8 and 4B-11) to reset everything. Now, after reconnecting the bat, the fuel gauge seems to be reading accurately (4 bars) and the car WILL start, but it will only run for 3-5 seconds... sign of progress?
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03-02-2014, 10:32 PM | #15 | |
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Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
With those two jumped, I would expect it to keep running. Did you jump it in a solid way, where the connection won't be intermittent? Also, measure the voltage on 4E-5 (violet wire) With the ignition switch in the ON position and then again after it stops running (without turning the key off).
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03-02-2014, 11:23 PM | #16 |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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It's alive!
Well, I had not actually tried to start the car with that jumper wire in. But I realized why it was not running for more than a few seconds--I had never put the intake hose (coming from the air filter) back together from when I had sprayed the starting fluid. Once I did that, I put the jumper wire in, and presto, it started up and kept running. I pulled the jumper wire, and it kept on running as if nothing had ever happened! Drove down the road and back about a mile, through all gears, just to be sure--running like the Toyota I know and love!
So should we chalk this up to a case of a bad connection that happened to get tightened up as I went through everything, or should I expect further troubles down the road? As for me, I'll just go about my normal commute and mark it as a miracle (I actually had prayed that I would get this fixed without spending any money on it! The Lord works in mysterious ways... ;-) Thanks for all of your help--especially Scott. |
03-03-2014, 10:01 AM | #17 | |
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Drives: 09 5dr LB, 2x 08 3dr LB Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
That is pretty wild. There may be an intermittent connection that temporarily resolved by manipulating the wires. I completely took apart one last night and was amazed that rather than a circuit board, there is a mass of wire inside that makes the connections between the various functions. There is a small circuit board on the back side, which is the actual body ECU, but other than that it is all punched down wire connections. The relay that you were bypassing is one of the four on the lower right side of the rightmost section. I suspect that your problem will eventually come back, but at least now you know which wires to jump to get it back going, so you don't get stranded. Body ECU Open.jpg
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03-03-2014, 04:26 PM | #18 |
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14
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Wow, sure am glad I did not have to pull that body ECU out!
Car ran fine all day today, so I'm hoping this is the end of it. But, as you said, now I at least know how to "hotwire" the fuel pump relay if indeed this occurs again (the MacGyver solution!) Thanks again, Scott! PS--I love your Yaris utility vehicle/ snow plow! Has that thing kept up with all of the snow this year? I would LOVE to have a factory-built Yaris pickup--a Yaris version of the old VW Rabbit mini trucks... |
Tags |
electrical, fuel gauge, fuel pump, won't start |
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