MCM's 2ZR swap

[tmontague]

That honestly doesn't sound too umrealistic of a price all in. Paying that much you expect it to run flawlessly and that is what they likely are delivering.

You have to factor in the research and time they have to do to make it work. This is something that many of us take for granted as we do it on our spare time and dont really consider it as time on our builds.

This is something that I've been pondering recently about the true cost of me going for a high compression 2zr build down the road. It seems that only way to do this is in stages to spread to cost over time. No way I'm dropping $10k CAD on my track toy. This is with me doing as much labor as possible.

The main issue to cost is the 2zr not being a tuner platform. There is no OTS starting point for engine management. Pay to play for dyno time and a tuner to start from scratch. I've seriously considered a 20 swap but in all reality that seems even more expensive when all said and done

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by tmontague

That honestly doesn't sound too umrealistic of a price all in. Paying that much you expect it to run flawlessly and that is what they likely are delivering.

You have to factor in the research and time they have to do to make it work. This is something that many of us take for granted as we do it on our spare time and dont really consider it as time on our builds.

This is something that I've been pondering recently about the true cost of me going for a high compression 2zr build down the road. It seems that only way to do this is in stages to spread to cost over time. No way I'm dropping $10k CAD on my track toy. This is with me doing as much labor as possible.

The main issue to cost is the 2zr not being a tuner platform. There is no OTS starting point for engine management. Pay to play for dyno time and a tuner to start from scratch. I've seriously considered a 20 swap but in all reality that seems even more expensive when all said and done

$7000.00 doesn't sound unrealistic to you for an ECU install and tune? When I spoke to another tuner before embarking on my build, he recommended standalone. He confirmed that the Haltech ECU he was looking (~$1500.00) at supported DBW and he estimated about a day on the dyno tuning. The wiring can't be that much more complicated than the F/IC. In the conversation I had with the tuner, he gave me a quick list of questions and said that if the parameters were met, it would work in my car. Subsequently, he looked up my car and the aftermarket ECU and was convinced they'd work together properly. As far as research goes, isn't that basically looking at wiring diagrams? A professional tuning shop should be well versed in matching up ECUs to a variety of cars. Maybe it's that anti-corolla sentiment in effect. $7000.00 still seems incredibly high. But, it would be nice to see a detailed work order. Maybe they are ballparking really high in case they do run into significant problems.

[tmontague]

Originally Posted by 06YarisRS

$7000.00 doesn't sound unrealistic to you for an ECU install and tune? When I spoke to another tuner before embarking on my build, he recommended standalone. He confirmed that the Haltech ECU he was looking (~$1500.00) at supported DBW and he estimated about a day on the dyno tuning. The wiring can't be that much more complicated than the F/IC. In the conversation I had with the tuner, he gave me a quick list of questions and said that if the parameters were met, it would work in my car. Subsequently, he looked up my car and the aftermarket ECU and was convinced they'd work together properly. As far as research goes, isn't that basically looking at wiring diagrams? A professional tuning shop should be well versed in matching up ECUs to a variety of cars. Maybe it's that anti-corolla sentiment in effect. $7000.00 still seems incredibly high. But, it would be nice to see a detailed work order. Maybe they are ballparking really high in case they do run into significant problems.

Expectations vs reality.

A good tuning shop will know exactly what the reality would be with a swapped engine which now involves an additional wiring diagram and complexities. A good shop is full of work and isn't grasping at work to keep the lights on which makes the cost reflective of what it would cost to be worth it for them. Again, I guarantee this is their all in cost for a well sorted car, not one that has idle issues and ambient temp issues that need to be sorted by the owner.

A standalone is a whole different ball game than a piggyback, they are not even close. Dealing with DBW vs a piggyback which keeps the original ECU in place to manage all of that is apples to oranges. Your build is an example of the above. How much time have you put into making your car driveable and idle properly? Keep in mind this is all on a piggyback and not a standalone. Now think of how much time it would have been for a tuner to do all of that when you factor all of the time in that you spent reading things online and various wiring diagrams.

When you take a step back you are hours upon hours into your build, and all of this is just to get it street driveable, not necessarily ready for the demands of a track and heat soak or various maps. I am no different, but if I expected a shop to do what I did I would expect to pay big $. In the world of tuning and car builds you pay to play...or you do it yourself (and still pay somewhat).

Yes the above quote is a lot of cash but not out of the realm of what I would somewhat expect for a top tuning shop for a ready to go car.

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by tmontague

Expectations vs reality.

A good tuning shop will know exactly what the reality would be with a swapped engine which now involves an additional wiring diagram and complexities. A good shop is full of work and isn't grasping at work to keep the lights on which makes the cost reflective of what it would cost to be worth it for them. Again, I guarantee this is their all in cost for a well sorted car, not one that has idle issues and ambient temp issues that need to be sorted by the owner.

A standalone is a whole different ball game than a piggyback, they are not even close. Dealing with DBW vs a piggyback which keeps the original ECU in place to manage all of that is apples to oranges. Your build is an example of the above. How much time have you put into making your car driveable and idle properly? Keep in mind this is all on a piggyback and not a standalone. Now think of how much time it would have been for a tuner to do all of that when you factor all of the time in that you spent reading things online and various wiring diagrams.

When you take a step back you are hours upon hours into your build, and all of this is just to get it street driveable, not necessarily ready for the demands of a track and heat soak or various maps. I am no different, but if I expected a shop to do what I did I would expect to pay big $. In the world of tuning and car builds you pay to play...or you do it yourself (and still pay somewhat).

Yes the above quote is a lot of cash but not out of the realm of what I would somewhat expect for a top tuning shop for a ready to go car.

You make some good points, Trevor. For sure, if I added up my hours, it would represent a lot of time in research. That said, it was all new to me. When I was speaking to the tuner who ultimately DID NOT tune/work on my car, he did say that there were definitely differences between installing a standalone vs a piggyback, but that the major cost difference would come from two main differences: 1) the cost of the hardware and 2) the tuning time as it would be from scratch. However, he may have been more familiar with the Toyota platform. He estimated that he could build a turbo kit for my car, including a standalone computer, tuned and on the road for around $10 000.00. He confirmed that the aftermarket ECU he had in mind could indeed control DBW. Now, this guy runs a small shop and likely doesn't have the overhead or monied customer base that another more established shop would have. I still think that $7000.00 for the install and tuning of an ECU is excessive, but I guess it boils down to what the market will bear.

You are correct in that I did chase a few issues. I suffered idle bucking and found the cure for that (2.2Kohm resistor) on the crank signal wire. I also did have to make alterations to my fuel and timing maps to compensate for the difference between a dyno tune and the street driving realities. So far, I have been extremely fortunate. My car starts virtually as soon as I turn the key, Idle is perfect. What I would like in a standalone - vs the piggyback - though is the ability to control partial boost/partial AFR.