GM Govt. Bailout?

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

No, see, I don't think you guys understand. You can't just completely disenfranchise 1 million + American workers, many of which came out of high school and directed their lives towards one industry. Those million people (who pay taxes too, by the way) are innocent victims of a much smaller contingent at the top.

Yeah, right..... "disenfranchise". Where's my franchise, Charles?

They earn more than I earn now. They didn't get a college degree or tech school degree like me. They went "into the Mill" as we put it hereabouts.

They didn't "pay their dues" working scut work, then finally getting an entry level job, then working their way up the ladder earning experience.

They didn't, after many years of working, get a decent job, then get another decent job. They didn't eat shit from stupid bosses, instead they got settled into a routine and whenever the Boss got out of line they whined to their Union Steward.

They joined the UAW and got a job in an assembly line. They got a pension, they got great health benefits, and they lived the middle class life. Doing work that was easier than any job I ever worked in my life, excluding perhaps McDonald's.

Certainly their work was safer than my experience in Dialysis, where I was exposed to Hepatitis and AIDS every day, or when I could have been fried or burned in other jobs. What could happen to them? Get burned by the spot welder? Get gagged by the paint booth? Maybe drop a part on their toes? Get squashed by a load improperly slung (I risk that too today)?

Sorry, Charles, my sympathy, and those of people who today work in Wal-Mart, Target and other "service jobs" only goes so far. I for one am sick and tired of Organized Labor and their "You owe me" routine.

They can take their "franchise" and stuff it.

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

The question is how do you provide help to the industry and ensure that this won't happen again. There has to be oversight, but to what extent? Yes, this is the government dipping hands into the private sector. Yes, it is mildly socialist... but the alternative would put some towns to bed and throw millions of people into an already bleak job market. Don't forget those workers have families... they'll suffer, too.

Yeah, where was all of this bailout money when I needed it....? I've been laid off seven times in my life. Aside unemployment, which I pay into every paycheck, I never got a dime. Never asked for it either, but never got it offered to me.

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

I think what you'll see is a bailout and then a phased retooling of the industry to make it more compact and specialized. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the offshoot makes (Saturn, Mercury, etc.) are discontinued and more focus put into the major brands that own them. A section of the bailout will probably be earmarked for R&D, and these companies are going to be expected to be turning out a much more viable product IE: no more Dodge Challengers and other absolutely moronic business moves. Lets see some innovation. Where is the damn petroleum-free vehicle?!

The Challenger was a good idea. It sold well.

As far as "petroleum free vehicle".... hey, lead the way, my man. Nobody is stopping you from electrifying your Yaris.

Of course there isn't enough electricity generating capacity in the US to completely replace the US fleet. A little simple arithmetic and dimensional analysis will bear that one out fast.

A nice fuel efficient car would do, except that the average American consumer won't buy it. My Yaris is the poorest accelerating vehicle I've ever owned. I have friends who are afraid to ride in it. I have one friend who is too obese to fit in it. I really like my Yaris but I know what the average American likes and that's not it.

Gene

[bobby]

American cars are HORRIBLE. I would be embarrassed to be seen driving one. Ugh!

[Bob_VT]

Originally Posted by bobby

American cars are HORRIBLE. I would be embarrassed to be seen driving one. Ugh!

Remember that when you need a policeman in NYC...... they drive American cars...... the ambulances are American too.......

[KCALB SIRAY]

Originally Posted by bobby

American cars are HORRIBLE. I would be embarrassed to be seen driving one. Ugh!

I'd be embarrassesd to be seen with you in an American city. Hey, I hear Canada is giving people a rebate of $1,000 for owning a Fit and living there... go get it

[anonymous user]

You know, sometimes it's hard being the worlds top economic powerhouse year in and year out. I mean we bailout all these countries in their times of need.
But when we need it, very few nations can help us, monetarily at least.
Well, when the dollar is worth jack squat, i hope we can still all go on vacation and buy a $10 ice cream cone, or a $10 cup of starbucks coffee.

[PaidTimeOff]

Bailout would be fine with the proper oversight and regulation by the government in these companies especially now that the government has financial stakes in them. All the guys at the top of the chain should be held accountable for what happened to the companies and should be immediately fired without any benefits, severance, etc. Their sole responsibility is making decisions for the company in order to prevent exactly what's happening to them now. Why should anyone ever be rewarded for doing their job completely wrong?

I would prefer to see these companies sink with the captains that navigated them into the shallow reef, but there's no way that the workers on the lower levels of the companies should be put out of jobs for decisions they had no hand in making. Solution: Bail out the company, fire every single executive simply for the fact that they drove the company into the ground, hire new workers to take their place, and regulate and oversee up the butthole with a requirement of centering R&D on alternative-fuel technologies as chinocharles suggested.

[Nigal]

If a company is unable to run it's business so that they offer a marketable product then they should be allowed to fail. It will only strengthen the rest of the industry in the long run. Bail outs do nothing but prolong the suffering. Look at AIG. They are already coming back to the trough for seconds.

Can anyone honestly say that it is right and proper for a company to assume all profits yet we, the tax payers, assume all risk? No.

[PetersRedYaris]

Originally Posted by Nigal

If a company is unable to run it's business so that they offer a marketable product then they should be allowed to fail. It will only strengthen the rest of the industry in the long run. Bail outs do nothing but prolong the suffering. Look at AIG. They are already coming back to the trough for seconds.

Can anyone honestly say that it is right and proper for a company to assume all profits yet we, the tax payers, assume all risk? No.

Nigal- one of the smartest Yarisworldians around...

[Nigal]

Originally Posted by PetersRedYaris

Nigal- one of the smartest Yarisworldians around...

I wouldn't go that far. How about best looking in stead?

[Woody_Woodchuck]

Chapter 11. Even with a bailout jobs will be lost. One bailout is not going to be enough, they will be back for more.

Giving them money for having a company that has not been business smart is ridiculous. It really does not give them any immediate incentive to turn the company around to make it financially stable. A bailout will only buy them time before this happens again, it is short term solution. And, how much money is it really going to take, 25 Billion is nowhere near enough to get that large of an operation turned around. I understand that the auto industry fingers are into everything and many, many people are affected. But, no matter how much cash they receive, they are going to have to cut jobs, production costs and scale back on everything to make it. Let’s get the ball rolling now instead of putting this off for a few years at taxpayer’s expense.

Bankruptcy will force them to re-think their business plan and they will be dealing with their money, not mine. True, I will be paying unemployment and many other costs associated with layoffs but in the long run it is the right way to proceed.

[Phaeton]

Just imagine the hit to the economy, if all those people lost their jobs.

[Nigal]

I'm not happy about GM going under but did anyone not see it coming? For the last 10 years working at a GM plant has been as secure as working at a 78 rpm record factory.

And another question that needs to be asked: Why spend all this cash on a load/bail out to save Mexican and Canadian jobs?

[eco]

If the American companys fail here,Toyota and others will seriously open up shop in USA,thats how you get the jobs back.

[churp]

Chapter 11 is the only way to make them change their ways....there has been little change in the big 3 since the 1st gas crisis in the 70's. They have lived off of the public that has bought their product, for whatever reason, even though other markets have provided superior alternatives....if they would have even come close to the foreign markets in cost/reliability/etc. they would be on top, but they didn't even try. If they recieve a bailout, why would they try now???

[talnlnky]

Sure... bail them out.... under the condition that they will import that tata nano (or whatever its called) and buy the rights to sell those Air cars when they go into production in like 2011.

if we bail them out... they better have something worth while.

If the public pays... there should at least be some benefit for the public. "saving jobs" just doesn't cut it.

[TLyttle]

I have no interest in seeing a major recession (depression?) either, but the Big Three has been building buggy whips for awhile now, and demanding that people buy them. Every once in awhile I run across some happy guy that says, "I buy cars made in America, right or wrong, I don't care that your Toy car is getting 50mpg, I am supporting my country!" And then I really don't know whether to laugh or cry.

For 50 years I have never considered fuel cost to be a consideration: I was getting 40mpg out of my vehicles long before it became stylish. I took the abuse about "when are you gonna buy a REAL car" etc, yet I had more fun than most in my vehicles. If I thought Toyota would build a convertible Yaris, I would be on the buyers list immediately. But the thought of buying a Pontiac just flips my stomach, the closest to what I am used to. I am still lusting after a Miata, even better...

[tk-421]

Chances Dwindle on Bailout Plan for Automakers

The prospects of a government rescue for the foundering American automakers dwindled Thursday as Democratic Congressional leaders conceded that they would face potentially insurmountable Republican opposition during a lame-duck session next week.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/business/14auto.html

[BailOut]

As soon as I saw this thread I started formulating a post in my head but I quickly found that ChinoCharles took the words right out of my mouth.