In regards to understeer....... - Page 2 - Toyota Yaris Forums

jkuchta · 05-29-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by largeorangefont

There is your problem.

You can't drive a FWD or RWD car like an AWD car.

You can't get on the gas to straighten the car out and the car will not turn if you are threashold breaking and start to turn. It sounds like you are overdriving the car into the corners.

Think of a FWD car as only being able to do one thing at a time. It can either go, steer or brake. Near the limit you can only do one of these things at a time. As you get better you will learn how to blend them together.

Do your breaking before the corner, take a smooth line off power to the apex then get back to the gas on corner exit.

A Yaris is a momentum car. If the front or rear tires are sliding you are doing it wrong, and losing time.

Actually, the yaris HB on stock suspension responds quite well to trail-braking. With the upgraded rear pads, my little hatch was turning in and taking a set really well at the Roval. Plus, the added weight transfer on the front end provided by the trail-braking allowed for slightly higher entry speeds in the moderate to slower corners (turn 3..right after NASCAR turn 2, that hairpin that leads onto the infield straight under the pedestrian bridge, and the final set of lefts which lead back onto the front tri-oval.....just to name a few).

BEWARE!! Trail-braking can get you into trouble if you do it wrong! Learn how to enter corners fast off the brakes first (like Largeorangefont says!), and then learn how to enter them faster on the brakes.

Also, being smooth getting OFF of the brakes is just as important (maybe even more so) as being smooth getting on the brakes. You can brake harder if the car is settled.

anonymous user · 05-30-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by largeorangefont

There is your problem.

You can't drive a FWD or RWD car like an AWD car.

You can't get on the gas to straighten the car out and the car will not turn if you are threashold breaking and start to turn. It sounds like you are overdriving the car into the corners.

Think of a FWD car as only being able to do one thing at a time. It can either go, steer or brake. Near the limit you can only do one of these things at a time. As you get better you will learn how to blend them together.

Do your breaking before the corner, take a smooth line off power to the apex then get back to the gas on corner exit.

A Yaris is a momentum car. If the front or rear tires are sliding you are doing it wrong, and losing time.

I figured just as much. I've been told to drive this thing like a early 90's miata, except this car has no power, so i'll avoid using unnecessary braking.
I've completely smoked the front brakes, and as impressive as it was for spectators, it didn't help my times out much.
We have about a month to go before i can report on the status of out first event of the scca season.
Until tehn, i'll be anxiously awaiting my turn by reading about everyone elses regions.

aeipee13 · 05-23-2009, 03:30 PM

AWD can be wacky. loosing grip in AWD? floor it and point the direction you want to go. Basically throw that all out the window when learning FF or FR driving. AWD is like the evil cousin of the two in terms of "what to do."

HTM Yaris · 05-23-2009, 08:13 PM

I suggest getting your skill level WAAAAY up before driving a MR2 or Elise spirited . With these cars having the engine in the rear , it makes them susceptable to snap oversteer (especially in the wet ). The Elise is less susceptable than the MR2 due to the better tuned suspension , stickier tires and lower center of gravity . But even the mighty Elise will spin in the hands of someone who isn't up to par with their skills .

jkuchta · 05-24-2009, 02:26 AM

This car responds to very slight differances in tire pressures front to rear...

Just like Tomago and Loren said, play with that first.

I was able to dial out all of the understeer with completely stock suspension and no swaybar by running the rears like 3-4 psi higher than the fronts (34psi front, 38psi rear HOT). The car would pivot really nicely, and slight moments of oversteer were very controlable (i.e. a ton of FUN!).

I was running on 500 tread wear street tires, so the higher pressures were needed to keep the car off the sidewalls (though a trip to the Streets of Willow proved that there's really no way to keep a car that's driven hard off the sidewalls of a set of street tires, no matter how high the pressures are!)

The addition of a rear swaybar, better tires, and stiffer springs and shocks would have allowed more equal (and lower) tire pressures, as well as way more grip.

Tire pressures are one of those things you can play with a lot at the track, and it takes almost no time...yields almost instant feedback....and costs nothing...just don't change pressures more than 1-2 psi at a time.

regal · 05-27-2009, 12:08 PM

What about pure potential, I heard 1g. With my trd shock, tokico blues, and rear sway bar I'm just not seeing it. It tends to dive into oversteer. There must be more potential out of this car.

Tamago · 05-27-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal

What about pure potential, I heard 1g. With my trd shock, tokico blues, and rear sway bar I'm just not seeing it. It tends to dive into oversteer. There must be more potential out of this car.

beating a dead horse here, but you bought crappy tires lol

scape · 05-27-2009, 01:54 PM

someone posted an article about achieving 1g or greater in some tests, and the only reason the yaris seemed to pull it off was very specialized, and probably expensive, track-only tires. the suspension mods they did (perhaps minimal but I believe it was coil-overs) acheived .86g from the stock .75 without the tire change.

SailDesign · 05-27-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamago

beating a dead horse here, but you bought crappy tires lol

And you still haven't mentioned tire pressures - they are as important as susp. upgrades - really!
But that would be beating the dead horse again, so I'l shut up - none so deaf as those that won't listen....

(not you, Tamago, the OP)

Tamago · 05-27-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamago

add camber in the front

play with tire pressures.

install rear swaybar

get a little toe-out in the rear

should fix all your issues :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamago

tire pressures. play with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailDesign

And you still haven't mentioned tire pressures - they are as important as susp. upgrades - really!
But that would be beating the dead horse again, so I'l shut up - none so deaf as those that won't listen....

(not you, Tamago, the OP)

tire pressures?

SailDesign · 05-27-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamago

tire pressures?

One day he'll get it. But I expect to have at least one more post deleted by then. Not complaining, coz it wasn't a particularly nice post, but I really hope he gets it soon.....

Off-topic, is there a way to find out which mod deleted the post, so that I can ask which part of it offended? would make recurring offensive posts less likely.

anonymous user · 05-30-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailDesign

And you still haven't mentioned tire pressures - they are as important as susp. upgrades - really!
But that would be beating the dead horse again, so I'l shut up - none so deaf as those that won't listen....

(not you, Tamago, the OP)

Are you referring to me? What am I NOT listening to?

SailDesign · 05-30-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous user

Are you referring to me? What am I NOT listening to?

No, not you, anon. Regal.

regal · 05-28-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamago

beating a dead horse here, but you bought crappy tires lol

They have never lost grip, what else does a tire do?

Loren · 05-27-2009, 12:13 PM

You can do anything you want with the suspension, if you don't put good tires on it, you're not going to pull a lot of G's.

scape · 05-27-2009, 01:56 PM

http://www.modified.com/news/0708_sc...hallenges.html
about 60% down the page, do a word search for yaris

scape · 05-27-2009, 02:54 PM

perhaps he meant specific settings found useful?

Tamago · 05-27-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scape

perhaps he meant specific settings found useful?

more in the rear than the front ;)

where in S florida are you?

05-23-2009, 08:13 PM	#4
HTM Yaris resident senior View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: south Carolina Posts: 814	I suggest getting your skill level WAAAAY up before driving a MR2 or Elise spirited . With these cars having the engine in the rear , it makes them susceptable to snap oversteer (especially in the wet ). The Elise is less susceptable than the MR2 due to the better tuned suspension , stickier tires and lower center of gravity . But even the mighty Elise will spin in the hands of someone who isn't up to par with their skills . __________________

05-27-2009, 12:13 PM	#15
Loren What? Drives: 2007 Yaris LB Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Safety Harbor, FL Posts: 1,006	You can do anything you want with the suspension, if you don't put good tires on it, you're not going to pull a lot of G's. __________________ ----------------------- Loren@InvisibleSun.org -----------------------

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05-23-2009, 03:30 PM	#3
aeipee13 DKDC Drives: Yarlet Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: los angeles Posts: 200	AWD can be wacky. loosing grip in AWD? floor it and point the direction you want to go. Basically throw that all out the window when learning FF or FR driving. AWD is like the evil cousin of the two in terms of "what to do."

05-24-2009, 02:26 AM	#5
jkuchta View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris hatch (red) Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: L.A. Posts: 557	This car responds to very slight differances in tire pressures front to rear... Just like Tomago and Loren said, play with that first. I was able to dial out all of the understeer with completely stock suspension and no swaybar by running the rears like 3-4 psi higher than the fronts (34psi front, 38psi rear HOT). The car would pivot really nicely, and slight moments of oversteer were very controlable (i.e. a ton of FUN!). I was running on 500 tread wear street tires, so the higher pressures were needed to keep the car off the sidewalls (though a trip to the Streets of Willow proved that there's really no way to keep a car that's driven hard off the sidewalls of a set of street tires, no matter how high the pressures are!) The addition of a rear swaybar, better tires, and stiffer springs and shocks would have allowed more equal (and lower) tire pressures, as well as way more grip. Tire pressures are one of those things you can play with a lot at the track, and it takes almost no time...yields almost instant feedback....and costs nothing...just don't change pressures more than 1-2 psi at a time.

05-27-2009, 12:08 PM	#6
regal Drives: 09 Yaris 3 Dr White LB Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: PA Posts: 432	What about pure potential, I heard 1g. With my trd shock, tokico blues, and rear sway bar I'm just not seeing it. It tends to dive into oversteer. There must be more potential out of this car.

05-27-2009, 01:54 PM	#8
scape View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Beaufort, South Carolina Posts: 388	someone posted an article about achieving 1g or greater in some tests, and the only reason the yaris seemed to pull it off was very specialized, and probably expensive, track-only tires. the suspension mods they did (perhaps minimal but I believe it was coil-overs) acheived .86g from the stock .75 without the tire change.

05-27-2009, 01:56 PM	#16
scape View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Beaufort, South Carolina Posts: 388	http://www.modified.com/news/0708_sc...hallenges.html about 60% down the page, do a word search for yaris

05-27-2009, 02:54 PM	#17
scape View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Beaufort, South Carolina Posts: 388	perhaps he meant specific settings found useful?