best synthetic oil and m/t oil??

[07WYarisRS]

Originally Posted by firefly1_0

if its designed to run with synthetic oil from the start then it works... AMG does it.

proper engine break in is at least 20,000 KM, no if's, and's or butt's.
the benifits that synthetic can provide are better cold winter starts, and better protection with an older engine.

we already get 5,000 miles between changes using regular oil in these cars, is that not enough?

if you are really that keen on running synthetic, i would check your warranty,and talk to a toyota mechanic, i can't be bothered to look, i talked the dealer into 5 years of free oil changes when i bought mine...

What is break in?
What does it do?
What is the difference between and engine designed to use synthetic and one that is not?
What synthetics do not meet mfg oil standards?

When you are breaking in an engine you are seating the rings. As the rings seat engine compression levels rise until the rings are fully seated.
improper break in, like driving your car like a pansy will not product high enough combustion pressure to force the rings out to properly seat. Proper break in is very important and 90% of it is done within the first 40 minutes of running the engine. The main things to avoid are steady cruise speeds, idleing, overrevving, or short trips under 5 minutes. After a tank of fuel the rings are pretty much seated as much as they will (depending on how it was run)

Everything else like bearings and valve guides are precision machined to exact specs. Again these are not engines from the 70's
Running in an engine does not in anyway shape or form take 20,000km
For phuck sakes man some people don't put 20,000km on their car in a year...
My sister in laws Cobalt is 2 years old and does not have 20,000km.

The difference between oil is this
Group I = Conventional oil is group I oil (basic refined mineral oil)
Group II = Synthetic blend is a group II oil and is a mixture of synthetic base Group III = highly refined crude oil but is classed as full synthetic and usually contain low to moderate levels of POA's and Esters (Mobil 1, syntec, Motul )
Group IV lubricants are pure synthetics POA based and contain no mineral oil (Amsoil Royal purple)
Group V lubricants are polyolEster based and also contain no mineral oil (Amsoil and Redline)

Any one of these oils can be used in ANY automotive engine, most if not all meet or by far exceed mgf oil requirements.
Some engines like in Cadillac, lincoln, BMW, Corvette, lexus, etc come with synthetic in them NEW off the showroom floor.
Why do Toyota dealers offer Mobil 1 for oil changes?


Please befor you make yourself look real stupid just stop talking about what you don't know anything about !


The fact is engine wear out, and using a better lubricant will greatly extend the life and performance of the engine. instead of an engine running 300,00km and burning oil, large loss of compression and overall loss of performance with TRUE synthetic you can greatly reduce the ring and cylinder wear, friction, heat and because there are no by products to oxidize and turn to sludge performance and oil flow is not lost doe to engine deposits.

With my race engine using EGT/CHT ive seem as much as 30degree drop in egt's just by switching to Amsoil. I went from rebuilding our drag and race engines every few races to once a season or longer.

[Yaris Dick]

Originally Posted by firefly1_0

switching to synthetic oil on a new car is the g-hey.

wait four years, have a 100,000 Kms on it then make the switch unless you want to install new valve guides and seals.

you will be buring oil in no time if you switch.

WRONG!

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...ics/Myths.aspx

http://choosetoprosper.com/synthetic-oil-myths.html

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7007980

[nsmitchell]

Firefly, you are joking... right... I mean if not, you don't know the first thing about what a "synthetic" oil is. A synthetic oil is basically an oil with molecules of a specific size and shape. They also have a low burn off rate, so the oil stays oil and doesn't turn to sludge from heat.
I hope you are just pulling our leg here, but if not, please do some research on the subject. Toyota mechanics are not the people to talk to about oil, they want you to use Toyota OEM oil and filters only. duh...
My friend heard the EXACT same song and dance from the Acura dealership. He fell for it hook-line-and sinker, like someone else I know on this Yaris board.
"Designed to run with synthetic" That's a good one. It should be "requires oil that wont thicken up like dino in 1000 miles."

[firefly1_0]

ok then, if thats what you guys think then fine, the fact that syn oil offers double the heat capcity is a given, it says so right on the lable...

think of what kind of car you are driving, its not a high performance car, force fed, running nitrous oxide or fueled by LPG or LNG, the things that generate higher heat in the combustion chamber and high exhaust and head temps.

unless you're running with half the recomended amount of coolant you will never see this type of engine condition happen.

hell, its your money... do what ever you want.

[07WYarisRS]

Originally Posted by firefly1_0

ok then, if thats what you guys think then fine, the fact that syn oil offers double the heat capcity is a given, it says so right on the lable...

think of what kind of car you are driving, its not a high performance car, force fed, running nitrous oxide or fueled by LPG or LNG, the things that generate higher heat in the combustion chamber and high exhaust and head temps.

unless you're running with half the recomended amount of coolant you will never see this type of engine condition happen.

hell, its your money... do what ever you want.

FWIW I built a turbo sprint a few years back.
It was an automatic, carbed non turbo and we made it an EFI, turbo 5 speed.

1L 3cyl TI
Blasted and decked block
.020" off the head and new valves (OEM cam for now)
Fully ported and polished head, intake, turbo, mani.
Full SS 2.25” mandrel bent exhaust No muffler and high flow cat
Balanced rods/OEM pistons, polished rods and minor crank touch up.
Oversized radiator
High flow injectors
Fuel regulator
inline 45psi fuel pump
Anti lag controller
K&N filter and cold air intake
boost controler
Stock turbo @ stock 15 and 22psi
Ractive gauges (boost, oil, water temp, A/F meter)
4th injector injector wired up at 15-16psi
Accel high power ignition, coil, wires
NGK plugs (indexed)
I/C ram air
ACT 2600 clutch
Guess what... it runs on Synthetics

[firefly1_0]

Originally Posted by 07WYarisRS

FWIW I built a turbo sprint a few years back.
It was an automatic, carbed non turbo and we made it an EFI, turbo 5 speed.

1L 3cyl TI
Blasted and decked block
.020" off the head and new valves (OEM cam for now)
Fully ported and polished head, intake, turbo, mani.
Full SS 2.25” mandrel bent exhaust No muffler and high flow cat
Balanced rods/OEM pistons, polished rods and minor crank touch up.
Oversized radiator
High flow injectors
Fuel regulator
inline 45psi fuel pump
Anti lag controller
K&N filter and cold air intake
boost controler
Stock turbo @ stock 15 and 22psi
Ractive gauges (boost, oil, water temp, A/F meter)
4th injector injector wired up at 15-16psi
Accel high power ignition, coil, wires
NGK plugs (indexed)
I/C ram air
ACT 2600 clutch
Guess what... it runs on Synthetics

and thats what i have as my race car and its pushing about 115 HP, i will add about 30-40 more with fuel management this winter.

one step further with the build though, bored to 75mm with a CR that is about 8.2:1 on 10 psi from a chrysler le barron turbo run through a FMIC.

and guess what it runs on 15w40 regular plain jane oil.

no matter what you run, you have think what you are running from. sludge? ok then run a high detergent oil and change your filter half way between oil changes...

[regulus]

Originally Posted by nsmitchell

Firefly, you are joking... right... I mean if not, you don't know the first thing about what a "synthetic" oil is. A synthetic oil is basically an oil with molecules of a specific size and shape. They also have a low burn off rate, so the oil stays oil and doesn't turn to sludge from heat.
I hope you are just pulling our leg here, but if not, please do some research on the subject. Toyota mechanics are not the people to talk to about oil, they want you to use Toyota OEM oil and filters only. duh...
My friend heard the EXACT same song and dance from the Acura dealership. He fell for it hook-line-and sinker, like someone else I know on this Yaris board.
"Designed to run with synthetic" That's a good one. It should be "requires oil that wont thicken up like dino in 1000 miles."

Why would you change to synthetic when you need to bring in the car anyways for the other stuff they do during oil changes. Filters, break liquid, tire pressure...., whatever they do.

And please dont act like you know it all, allow other people to have different opinions

[zyovka]

Well, I have changed the oil to synthetic 2 weeks ago, as it was noticed, already, the car performance is outstanding, but today I noticed, that the arrow on the oil pressure indicator kept standing right on the border between Low and Normal I clearly know, that right after the oil has been changed it was in the middle position of Normal. I also know that after the engine flush technician put only 1.25 gallons of oil in the engine, but not 1.5 gallons, as my 3.0 engine requeres (may be not? forgive me my arrogance).... So, I am thinking, why the oil pressure reduced after 2 weeks of driving.... I read somewhere here, that engine flush with concequent change to synthetic oil cleans up all the system from clogs and debris.... may be after this procedure it cleaned it so intensely that now I can have a leak somewhere ( the car is older one, 1994) or it might happen because the technician didn't put enough oil in the system.... Any advice is very appreciated....

[tomjasz]

Originally Posted by regulus

And please dont act like you know it all, allow other people to have different opinions

Opinions are not facts you seem to have that confused....

[07WYarisRS]

Originally Posted by regulus

Why would you change to synthetic when you need to bring in the car anyways for the other stuff they do during oil changes. Filters, break liquid, tire pressure...., whatever they do.

And please dont act like you know it all, allow other people to have different opinions

You don't need to bring the car to the dealer to have the tire pressure checked or to replace the cabin air filter, If you can change your own oil you can usually check the rest of the required stuff (except maybe the valve clearance) But hell even that can be checked by anyone but should be left to someone that knows what they are doing to adjust them.

[nsmitchell]

The sludge I'm afraid of comes from Dino oil itself breaking down quickly, from normal engine heat. I have seen the results of Pennzoil and Quacker State. Dirty crusty heads, an overall amber film over the lifters and cam. This comes from dino baking onto surfaces, and turning black and waxy in the corners of your valve covers. No Way Jose', not for me. I have been using synthetics for about 15 years now, and it's funny how I've never had a single engine malfunction from any hardware lubricated with synthetic oil. And when looking in the oil filler hole, it is shiny like new. But I have friends, oh yes, that don't believe in synthetics. Their engines are quite dirty and run like crap. If everyone used synthetics, mechanics would not be quite so rich! hehe You are in Alberta, and you don't use synthetics? What about when dino thickens up in the cold, and the first second of cranking you get metal on metal and OUCH! That hurts!
Think of thickened oil being filtered. The filter gets its pores clogged quicker with waxy crap and hello bypass valve, and dirty oil coating your engine. Real Nice!

You are like an old school mechanic... "I don't wants no FAKE OIL! I wants REAL OIL!"

[07WYarisRS]

That again is where you are wrong firefly.
Sludge is not a problem with an oil that contains no mineral oil. There are no mineral oil by products to break down. you can literally run thousands of miles and have no sludge, carbon or by product depostis in your engine.
That's why companies like Amsoil and Redline recommend and oil flush before switching to their oils after running conventional oil. Because introducting a ester or poa based synthetic will clean away sludge and can clog up the oil filter prematurely and then you basically running on unfiltered oil.
Using an engine flush will remove most of the sludge and deposits first then you have no problems with filters plugging up prematurely.

I'm still amazed after 10+ years of using synthetic at some of the engine I have pulled apart that were running synthetic. Heck I even posted pics on here a while ago comparing conventional and Amsoil on well used engines.

What you are eliminating is friction and heat and lots of it. In a turbo charged car you need the best oil you can get.
Try 400,000km on a stock turbo running 20psi... that's what my sunbirt GT runs. Compression is still within' 5psi of stock, does not use ANY oil between oil changes. With less heat and friction you gain more HP and better mileage.

A dyno will not lie, test your car before and after.
test your car then swap the engine oil with Amsoil 2000 20w-50 racing oil
Amsoil 75w-90 in the trans and re-test it.
You will not only see lower EGT, oil temps but higher HP numbers.

OR do some independent lab testing
send in a sample of your conventional oil after 500miles and a sample of Amsoil after 5000 miles and see what one comes out on top.

Sure it's easy to say I have never had a problem running this or that oil but group IV and V lubricants are FAR better then any conventional oil. Aircraft and tractor trialers often run these because the oils last 500,000km or more with bypass filtering set ups. NO conventional oil will withstand that kind of punishment.

On royal purples web site you can view the before and after videos of cars tested on the dyno from shows like Hot rod TV and horsepower TV etc.

If you think a conventional oil is good, MAN a true synthetic like redline or Amsoil will amaze you.
don't talk to the dealers that will try to push house brand oils or have you come in for service
Better yet walk around the pits of you local race tracks both street and off road bike and ATVs and see what the professional engine builders and racers are using.
They use them because they are the best
When I worked and Raced for both Yamaha and Arctic cat we had several oil sponsers but used Amsoil because it was what allowed us to run year after year with no DNF's and save us thousands of dollars every month because there was no need to rebuild the engines.

As i said before I'm a motorcycle /ATV mechainc, that's what I do. even though I do sell Amsoil I do use it in my shop. for the people that want a cheaper oil I use mobil 1 or shell.
Synthetic have save me and my customer thousands of $$$ over the years in repair costs. A DNF can make or break a championship and I have never had anengine failure since running synthetic. I've almosy eliminated any gearbox wear, extend clutch like 3X and engine wear has also be greatly reduced.

[firefly1_0]

can you please look back at any of my posts in this thread and see if at any time i said, synthetic oil is bad?

never did i say that, all i said was that its not the greatest for a NEW car. sure once you have it broken in, do what you like.

i have used and still use syn oil in other projects. just not on a brand new car that is on its 2nd or 3rd oil change.

that is all i ever really said. but you guys seem to think that i was attacking the use of it all together.

[07WYarisRS]

pretty much if ...
"using it in a new car is ghey !"
you claim it will somehow damage the valve guides and seals
you have to wait 4 years or 100,000km
takes 20,000 to break in an engine.

I agree and will always stand by the fact that an engine/any engine should be run in using a group I to group III oil. NOT a group IV or V lubricant.
But once the engine is run in (compression level has reached it peak) and the sooner you switch to a snythetic the sooner you start to protect the engine and start reducing friction and heat. Anytime after the first oil change is perfect.
It will NEVER take 20,000km for compression to reach it's peak. Infact most most can be run in in less then an hour.

I just waited the until my first oil change to swap in the synthetic.


What kind of oil do you use because the dollar stores sells the ecaxt same oil you buy from canadian tire for $1 liter.
sometimes 2 for a $1

[firefly1_0]

i'm getting free oil changes for the next 4 years from the dealer only because i asked for them when i bought the car and they agreed.

i buy the car, they work on it, it breaks, they fix it and i am happy.

if we agree to disagree on this then it will be over and we can go about our day.

you like sooner i like the longer wait. that is all.

[07WYarisRS]

Originally Posted by firefly1_0

i'm getting free oil changes for the next 4 years from the dealer only because i asked for them when i bought the car and they agreed.

i buy the car, they work on it, it breaks, they fix it and i am happy.

if we agree to disagree on this then it will be over and we can go about our day.

you like sooner i like the longer wait. that is all.

If you are happy I quess that's all that matters.

Most car dealers in Canada buy oil in bulk below wholesale from Shell or Esso and
it cost the dealers next to nothing. Less then a dollar a liter for 55 gallons (210 liters) and they usually charge $20 a gallon or more for it.
With that kind of money rolling in the door they don't care about free oil changes to some customers, or doing some promotions They will recommned the cheap stuff to customers because that's where they make the big money.
Some do supply more costly synthetics.
My local GM and toyota dealers gives the first couple changes for free and every 5th oil change free after that. Both use Shell oil and Mobil 1 on request.

Be careful with the free oil changes too.
There is serects to making $$$ on them like many crooked quick lube centers out there. They remove the oil filter, clean it well, and re-install it. Some even go as far insert machine screw to open up the anti drain back and flush the filter out a bit with solvents. But most will just wipe them with an armorall soaked rag to give it that shiny gloss new look if they don't have any paint chips or scratches on them.
So it costs them like $3 every time you want an oil change and thay makes HUGE proffits. Even if they do use OEM filters it only 1-2 bucks max for wholesale filters.

I used to buy filters at wholesale from Hiflofiltro, the supplier for Honda , Yamaha and many other OEM motorcycle filters. The Dealers charge as much as $15 per filter. Wholesale I was payin less then $3

[whoguy]

Hi all,

Wow, this really is a hot topic.

I've switched to fully synthetic Castrol Edge Sport 5w-30 after 2400km's along with a puralator pure one filter. I believe that engine's should be run in with dino oil. The engine should be run in correctly, varying rpm's and loads, moving up to higher rpms and loads as kilometers build. Many have said modern engines run in in approximately the first 500kms( piston rings, seals, cylinder walls... the important stuff). So I thought I'd make sure by letting it run in for 2400kms. The valve train (cams, guides etc) won't run in in this time, but tolerances are so good these days that it's not necessary I believe.

One thing I noticed was that fuel efficiency has increased noticeably using synthetic. So that means friction has been reduced and efficiency increased. If I get glazed bores, smoking, blow by etc... you's will be the first to know about it.

Thanks all:)

[foober]

I've been using mobil 1 on all my vehicle for 12 years. Its all they've known. And as my mechanic has said my engines are like brand new inside.

I switched to amsoil with my yaris after reading that it is a step up from mobil 1. I did run the yaris for the first 3000 miles on whatever toyota put in it to begin with.