Alpine Type R to the rescue

[The Architect]

Ehh the type r is a good budget sub that does well in ported enclosures, the are far better and far worse.

[centrysis]

Originally Posted by The Architect

Ehh the type r is a good budget sub that does well in ported enclosures, the are far better and far worse.

So what is a little bit better? For say around 650 watts rms. A dual 4 ohm 12".

[The Architect]

Id go for an RE SE 12 D4, 600 rms but underated slightly and relatively cheap, they're wildly popular over at ca.com

[The Architect]

you seem to be rather passionate, see if alpine needs any reps lol

[Alien Mantis]

Originally Posted by The Architect

you seem to be rather passionate, see if alpine needs any reps lol

The Type R sells itself!

I seem to recall YOU running 3 of them in your ride?

*ahem*

[Slick]

Alpine blow, nightshades ftw :P

[The Architect]

oh god, lets all just go out and get IA Warden 21's and call it a day.

[Slick]

Originally Posted by The Architect

oh god, lets all just go out and get IA Warden 21's and call it a day.

+1 lol

[Alien Mantis]

Originally Posted by The Architect

oh god, lets all just go out and get IA Warden 21's and call it a day.

And the price is HOW much exactly?

[Alien Mantis]

What do you experts look for when choosing a sub?

Big magnet?
Long excursion?
Cone Diameter?
Big voice coils?
Power rating?
Sensitivity?
Overall construction?
Dustcap color?
BRAND name?
Thiele Small parameters?

For me... I try to look at the SPECS, and then imagine how those specs would translate into real-world performance.
I look at RMS power that matches my amp, and what enclosure it needs.
I try to find a balance between SPL and SQ, because I can't afford the gear needed to achieve BOTH.

Do you guys just go for the latest "flavor" trend, or do you try and copy what the PRO competition guys are doing at the shows?

With "boutique" audio gear... the sky is the limit.
So where do you draw the line? When is "enough" enough?

[The Architect]

to each their own, some are fine with a 10 in the back sealed and say its loud as death and then some like have upwards of 36 inches of subwoofer for spine tingling visor flapping goodness.

I need my bass to be some sort of tight and defined, I dont want blurred, muddy or undefined bass even if its loud loud loud.

I never said type r's werent great for their price range, purpose & quality. they get the job done just fine.

[Alien Mantis]

Originally Posted by The Architect

I need my bass to be some sort of tight and defined, I dont want blurred, muddy or undefined bass even if its loud loud loud.

Yeah, I agree.

Loud MUD is not good.
The secret is getting your tight defined bass to also be LOUD.

That ported box I have is on the "loose" side. Seems to bump really nice, but also sounds kinda muddy on certain types of music.

I might end up putting that new Type R in a 1cf sealed box, and see how it does. I'm still getting used to it. Only had it for a few days. Gotta get to "know" it better.

[Slick]

I like big floppy base. Playin low 20 htz where it forces your breath in and out for you.

[Alien Mantis]

Originally Posted by Slick

I like big floppy base. Playin low 20 htz where it forces your breath in and out for you.

Yeah, that is kinda fun, huh!

( Just get your Shamwow and your big bottle of Armor-All, and you'll be fine! )

[The Architect]

im not sure you've ever experienced that unless you've been at least in steve meade's ride

[sqcomp]

The sound of the woofer has a lot to do with the enclosure...

Taln, you want to comment on this subject?

For me, he he, the tighter it is the better. I would give up output for tonal accuracy, attack, delay, and wide response. Someone say sealed enclosure? There really is so much more now that I'm thinking about it...

The dynamic ability of the woofer when combined with the other characteristics mentioned, the pitch accuracy of the woofer, and most importantly (to me), the ability of the speaker to convey ambiance (or how the overall "picture" of ambiance when grouped with the entire system).

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

The sound of the woofer has a lot to do with the enclosure...

Taln, you want to comment on this subject?
.

Sure, like with anything in phsyics... audio is a game of compromises. the speakers, the box, they are all a combination of compromises.

Sealed boxes are pretty much a "if you mess this thing up, you have no business in audio" type box. it's hard to mess up a sealed box... but it can be done.

Ported boxes take a bit of knowledge to properly design and build. Ported can sound just as tight as any sealed box can if properly designed. The problem with that is that 99% of premade ported boxes are designed to have a high tuning.... around 40-45hz. High tunings cause a giant spike in the group delay of the subs which means muddy sound. In order to resolve that problem, you'd have to tune the box lower, which means the box will end up being bigger, and also be quieter in the 40-60hz range (where all the rap beats are).

The way a sub is built also can have a great effect on if the sound will be tight or muddy. Often times the high powered subs sound muddy because in fact they suck... By this i mean they have giant voice coils with a very high inductence (Le) rating which means they can't respond quickly to the changes of the electronic signal... it has nothing to do with the size of the cone (which is a huge myth). There are a few high wattage subs that do have low Le ratings, but they are few and far between. the old JBL GTI subs had some of the lowest Le ratings i've ever seen on a sub.

if you start out with a sub with a crappy Le, even a sealed box may sound muddy... if you start out with a quality sub... even a poorly designed high tuned ported box might sound decent.

For reference... the best sounding sub I ever owned was a 12", was rated 1600rms, and had an Le around 1mH. Companies often don't like to advertise the Le ratings... but try comparing that 1mH to others out there.... some subs are over 4mH, I've seen midbass drivers as low as .13mH.

[Alien Mantis]

Good info there.

Did you notice the Inductance rating depends on the frequency tested?

Higher freq = lower Le

So you need to compare the Le at the freq the sub will play at, or the number is meaningless.