Long Tube Header Dyno results & Photo - Page 3 - Toyota Yaris Forums

richardholdener · 11-19-2008, 02:36 PM

PS-This is why I don't like to provide photos of the prototypes since they don't represent what the production piece will be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

does any1 one see that it is spit at the top. Never seen that on a header before. Was it a mistake or did it crack?

thepaidtraveler · 11-19-2008, 02:51 PM

Don't wory about posting prototypes Rich. Some people need to realize that this is what is considered a rough draft and not the final product.

It takes time to test and develope.

mikenacarato · 11-19-2008, 02:24 PM

i believe its for flexability. when the metal flange heats up if theres not a split it can warp and/or crack. its good to have a joint in there to allow expansion.

Yoda · 11-19-2008, 03:10 PM

i had a question and you answered its no biggie. Better you show the prototype so we can see where your going if we are to invest in it. It makes me feel alot more comfortable in investing in a product form some1 i dont kno or has heard about(others might have but not me). I am not a fan of word of mouth from people establishing others credibility. And i kno its a rough draft. Just wanted to kno if its a part of the design or not and its purpose.

But again thank you for taking the time to R&D all these parts for our cars.

jkuchta · 11-19-2008, 04:47 PM

So....will this system be available in 304 SS?

richardholdener · 11-19-2008, 04:52 PM

We are checking on pricing bbut it will likely be aluminized or coated mild speel to keep cost reasonable. 304 SS might nearly double price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkuchta

So....will this system be available in 304 SS?

jkuchta · 11-19-2008, 04:54 PM

Keep me posted....I'd pay extra for a 304 SS header that will last a while.

Thanks again for creating these parts for our car!

Treyz · 11-19-2008, 05:40 PM

subscribed

AznGouki · 11-19-2008, 10:52 PM

I'm definitely interested. It's rusting that really worries me.

WolfWings · 11-25-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AznGouki

I'm definitely interested. It's rusting that really worries me.

Honestly I'll pay the $1100 if it came in a good stainless steel instead of mild steel, but I live in the edges of the rust belt where the automated car washes are enclosed, heated, and get more business during winter from people grabbing the underbody wash than they do during the summer. :-)

NonStopTuning · 11-20-2008, 06:42 PM

Another excellent thread. Great job Richard!!!

rob323 · 11-25-2008, 12:15 AM

Richard, is there any provision to allow for the twisting of the motor? Flex joints etc?

richardholdener · 11-26-2008, 03:11 AM

We are doing testignon the ball/socket joint to see if there is enough flex for motor rotation, but if not there will have to be a flex joint. It looks like stainless constructionis important to some so we will investigate pricing for stainless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob323

Richard, is there any provision to allow for the twisting of the motor? Flex joints etc?

WolfWings · 11-26-2008, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardholdener

We are doing testignon the ball/socket joint to see if there is enough flex for motor rotation, but if not there will have to be a flex joint. It looks like stainless constructionis important to some so we will investigate pricing for stainless.

What the other guy said, thanks for looking into the stainless pricing, Richard! If it turns out overly prohibitive, mild will do, but thanks again for checking on the stainless for us.

jkuchta · 11-25-2008, 02:20 AM

I want the stainless most because it can put up with the higher heat of trackdays a lot better.

WolfWings · 11-25-2008, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkuchta

I want the stainless most because it can put up with the higher heat of trackdays a lot better.

That's flatly wrong. Both have a melting point north of 2500 degrees farenheight. Mild steel and 304 stainless steel both don't give a damn, most mild steels are in fact good up to 2700 degrees F, same as 304 stainless steel. High-carbon steel's are the ones that melt around 2000 degrees farenheight. Both also conduct heat almost identically, so there's no difference there either. Coat the mild steel version if you're concerned about heat-containment for track use.

Only reason to go with 304 SS on an exhaust is for rust prevention at exhaust temperatures or for cosmetic reasons. It may be possible to wrap and coat an exhaust to get the same rust prevention as 304 SS, but it's one of those "do you trust the coating to be water-tight and road-salt-proof, versus being able to rely on the underlying metal?" concerns.

gboezio · 11-25-2008, 06:49 AM

Actually Mild steel is a better material than 304 SS to handle the heat cycles, when 304 is heated the carbon combine with the chromium to form chomium carbide witch make the metal brittle.
304 is good for post headers exhaust systems since the temp is lower, I'd say to get the steel headers and coat the inside and outside, they will last long enough.

Or... make one out of 321 SS the alloy is stabilized with Titanium, it's hell expensive and rare like pope's crap, a costly option for an economical car IMO.

Just 0.02 $

jkuchta · 11-25-2008, 11:46 PM

Gboezio and WolfWings....you're both about half right.

Stainless and Mild steel both have high melting points, but Stainless conducts heat far less than mild steel, making it much better for exhaust applications. Also, stainless is much less susptable to scaleing and errosion than mild steel, making it even more superior in this application.
As far as embrittlement...while it will happen, the reduced fatigue strength of 304 will still be higher than that of mild steel, making for a stronger header.

A good site to look at is : http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechAr...s_article.html

I understand this is a site for a company that makes exhaust products, but this is also one of the most respected names in the industry. Feel free to fact check.

I'm still in if the header is made in 304 SS.

11-19-2008, 05:40 PM	#8
Treyz ~ ambient one ~ View User's Garage Drives: 2009 Bayou Yaris Liftback Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,046	subscribed __________________ AMBIENTLIFESTYLE Tri-State Sport Compact EZine ambientlifestyle.com------------ambientlifestyle.ning.com Micro Image Store - Network - Online microimageonline.com------------microimage.ning.com

11-19-2008, 10:52 PM	#9
AznGouki Metsu Drives: NCP91 ; E36 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Calgary Posts: 154	I'm definitely interested. It's rusting that really worries me. __________________

11-20-2008, 06:42 PM	#11
NonStopTuning Drives: NST CARS: S13 AE86 ANT10 AW11 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,097	Another excellent thread. Great job Richard!!! __________________ MIKE @ NST www.NonStopTuning.com

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11-19-2008, 02:51 PM	#2
thepaidtraveler Drives: Blazing Blue 3 Door Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Norwich, Ct Posts: 15	Don't wory about posting prototypes Rich. Some people need to realize that this is what is considered a rough draft and not the final product. It takes time to test and develope.

11-19-2008, 02:24 PM	#3
mikenacarato SIPNDEW View User's Garage Drives: 15 STI Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Brentwood, TN Posts: 2,281	i believe its for flexability. when the metal flange heats up if theres not a split it can warp and/or crack. its good to have a joint in there to allow expansion.

11-19-2008, 03:10 PM	#4
Yoda Drives: 2008 Black Sedan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: FL Posts: 966	i had a question and you answered its no biggie. Better you show the prototype so we can see where your going if we are to invest in it. It makes me feel alot more comfortable in investing in a product form some1 i dont kno or has heard about(others might have but not me). I am not a fan of word of mouth from people establishing others credibility. And i kno its a rough draft. Just wanted to kno if its a part of the design or not and its purpose. But again thank you for taking the time to R&D all these parts for our cars.

11-19-2008, 04:47 PM	#5
jkuchta View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris hatch (red) Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: L.A. Posts: 557	So....will this system be available in 304 SS?

11-19-2008, 04:54 PM	#7
jkuchta View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris hatch (red) Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: L.A. Posts: 557	Keep me posted....I'd pay extra for a 304 SS header that will last a while. Thanks again for creating these parts for our car!

11-25-2008, 12:15 AM	#12
rob323 Don't drive it, RALLY it! Drives: 1999 echo PRC rally car Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Joyner, Brisbane Posts: 321	Richard, is there any provision to allow for the twisting of the motor? Flex joints etc?

11-25-2008, 02:20 AM	#15
jkuchta View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris hatch (red) Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: L.A. Posts: 557	I want the stainless most because it can put up with the higher heat of trackdays a lot better.

11-25-2008, 06:49 AM	#17
gboezio Drives: Yaris 4dr 2008 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: victoriaville,Qc,Canada Posts: 28	Actually Mild steel is a better material than 304 SS to handle the heat cycles, when 304 is heated the carbon combine with the chromium to form chomium carbide witch make the metal brittle. 304 is good for post headers exhaust systems since the temp is lower, I'd say to get the steel headers and coat the inside and outside, they will last long enough. Or... make one out of 321 SS the alloy is stabilized with Titanium, it's hell expensive and rare like pope's crap, a costly option for an economical car IMO. Just 0.02 $

11-25-2008, 11:46 PM	#18
jkuchta View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris hatch (red) Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: L.A. Posts: 557	Gboezio and WolfWings....you're both about half right. Stainless and Mild steel both have high melting points, but Stainless conducts heat far less than mild steel, making it much better for exhaust applications. Also, stainless is much less susptable to scaleing and errosion than mild steel, making it even more superior in this application. As far as embrittlement...while it will happen, the reduced fatigue strength of 304 will still be higher than that of mild steel, making for a stronger header. A good site to look at is : http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechAr...s_article.html I understand this is a site for a company that makes exhaust products, but this is also one of the most respected names in the industry. Feel free to fact check. I'm still in if the header is made in 304 SS.