When to switch to synthetic oil?

[07WYarisRS]

Another Amsoil user here

I changed mine at 5000km after a hard break in. After all you can't break in rings driving like a pansy....

I run the TRO 2000 0W-30 and change it every 6 months or so. usually in the spring and fall (before the cold and after the cold LOL)

Not only does it provide more HP, better MPG but your engine last longer and maintains it's performance for a VERY VERY long time.
Best of all you save a LOT of $$$

using my truck as an example
I drove it 3 years and put on 100,000km

dealer recommended 5000km oil changes
that's 20 oil changes over 3 years
at $22 per oil change thats $440

With amsoil I change it every 6 months = 6 oil changes @$60
That's $360

If I changed it at Amsoil recommened interval of 1 year = $180

$180 vs $440.....

[paultyler_82]

P2, Synthetic is not heavier simply because it's synthetic, a 5W30 fossil oil and 5W30 Synthetic are the same viscosity. Further, synthetics are capable of withstanding longer oil change intervals, more high rev driving, and more heat before breakdown occurs, this is actually good in any car, doesn't really matter what your driving habits are. Another thing to consider is that most synthetic manufacturers tend to focus on Additive technologies, since most pure synthetics are just Polyalpha-olefin (PAO) base stocks purchased from companies such as Mobil Chemical co. Royal Purple, for instance, places a lot of pride in their proprietary additive blend, and Amsoil places a lot of pride in their oils which can actually promote better MPG. By the way, when I refer to Synthetics, I am refering to Group IV and V synths like Royal, Amsoil, and Red Line. Mobil 1 and Penzoil's Synthetics are Group II and III synthetics... meaning, they are NOT full synthetic as is stated on the bottle, rather they are a blend of PAO base stock and Hydro-cracked mineral oil base stock. I don't really care for that stuff, because it's cheap for Mobil and Penzoil to make and overpriced because it's "Full Synthetic".

[07WYarisRS]

Well said paultyler_82

The difference in viscosity between mineral oils and synthetic lubricatns is they are more stable and have a MUCH wider rang then their mineral oil counter part.

As an example
Q-state peak motor oil (conventional)
5w-30
W- pour point of -30 oC
flash point of 218 o C

Amsoil ASL 5W-30
pour point -50oC
flash point 228 oC

Amsoil TRO 20w-50
pour point -36o C (even though its a 20w)
flash point of 234 o C

The other big difference is stnthetics are more stable over a LOT longer time. With conventional oil as it breaks down the oils thicken and thing and change viscosity quickly. Group IV and V synthetic don't break down nearly as quickly and retain their viscosity much longer.

Last used mineral oils contain corrosive acids that damage internal parts
just one more reason they need to be changed more often or before parking/storing an engine for month or two

[Violin]

The word from Toyota: http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/t...p?p_faqid=4010

Synthetic oil may be used if it meets all specifications provided in your Owner’s Manual. Toyota is currently recommending API1 grade SL “energy-conserving” or ILSAC2 multigrade petroleum-based engine oil3 for our vehicles. (The “SL” designation supersedes previous categories such as “SJ” and “SH" and thus can be used in vehicles requiring SJ or SH motor oils.) In moderate climates, this oil should have a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) viscosity rating of 5W-30*.
If you decide to use synthetic oil for the engine, it is best not to switch until the first scheduled oil change. Synthetic oil should meet the specifications provided in your Owner's Manual. If synthetic oil is used, Toyota recommends that you continue to observe the oil change intervals laid forth in the Scheduled Maintenance Guide. Also, once synthetic oil is used, you should keep using it and not switch back and forth with natural petroleum-based oil.

While synthetic oil may offer some benefits, in our high mileage tests with preventative maintenance performed at the recommended intervals, petroleum-based motor oil has provided excellent service at a reasonable cost. All Toyota vehicles come from the factory with petroleum-based engine oil.

The Toyota New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any damage to the engine resulting from the use of engine oil that is defective or that which does not meet the specifications provided in your Owner's Manual, regardless of whether the oil is natural or synthetic.

[Violin]

Me? - I switched to Mobil One at my first oil change.

[paultyler_82]

Originally Posted by Violin

Me? - I switched to Mobil One at my first oil change.

Again, I'm going to make my disclaimer that Mobil One, despite the marketing hype, is not a Full Synthetic, but rather a synthetic blend using hydrocracked mineral oil base.

[jmew0ng]

I'm planning on switching myself... after driving my old echo, I changed the oil ever 3,000 miles and it was starting to look a tad bit dark :| But I take it having nice good oil and changing it while it looks only a little darker is better than changing it out when it turns dark red/orange :\

[wwwh355]

HI all.
It is quiet weird to me that ppl here are not using synthetic.
I will guess it must be because of the weather here.
Most ppl in my country(TAIWAN) uses synthetic oil.
maybe it is because the humidity is so high and air polution is so bad in TAIWAN.
Anyway, I will get my yaris 3 days later. took me 2 wks to wait.
I will chose just to follow the manual.
BTW, Toyota seems always have the longest oil-changing period.
Somehow they think their engine dont "torture" the oil at all?

[mikeukrainetz]

Just got back from my second oil change on my Yaris. I specifically asked the guy what he thought about the whole regular / synthetic oil changes. He had recently worked at mazda and said they recommended NOT using synthetic early in the engines life. The reason as stated earlier was engine break-in and synthetic not allowing the rings proper break in period. Rings are rings, whether now or in 1970, the same conditions apply. I opted out of the synthetic until at least the next oil change. I dont do the kind of driving that warrants synthetics benefits so I may not change at all considering the cost. If I ever boost the engine I may think differently.

[rstb88]

its not just sports car that come with syn as standard. my moms 04 taurus came with 5w20 syn from the factory, even says it on the cap. i changed the oil at 5000miles and switched to synthetic oil.

[sroberts]

After reading all the responses I am still not sure if I should switch to a full synthetic or not. hmmmm....

[07WYarisRS]

Originally Posted by sroberts

After reading all the responses I am still not sure if I should switch to a full synthetic or not. hmmmm....

Why not?
I can't hurt anything

The only down side is the cost be even then you can save a lot of $$$ using synthetics because of the extended drain intervels.

The pro's are better performance
better mileage
longer engine life
prolonged engine performance due to less by product and carbon
save $$$ with oil costs over the life of your car

Keep in mind if you want a full synthetic you only have a couple to decide from. Amsoil, Redline, Royal purple are about the top 3
Mobil 1, syntec, Motul and most big brand manes synthetic are Group III synthetics (hydrocracked mineral oil) Still far better then conventional oil but do require more frequent oil changes.

I use amsoil and change my oil/filter every 6 months (15,000-20,000km) even though I know it's good for only 1 oil change a year or 35,000 miles.

[SDsurfrider]

Im not sure how the syn would make a difference in how the rings seat themselves. Does anyone have good information on the toyota(denso?) filter compared to the TRD filter?

[07WYarisRS]

Originally Posted by SDsurfrider

Im not sure how the syn would make a difference in how the rings seat themselves. Does anyone have good information on the toyota(denso?) filter compared to the TRD filter?

It's simple really, heat and friction are what allow rings to seat quickly and properly.
Reduce the heat and friction and you slow down how quickly your rings seat.
The last thing any engine should have is a slow easy break in.

check out this thread
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

It has all the information on why engine builders like myself and thousands of racers and mechanics and even oil companies like redline, Amsoil etc do not recommend using a group IV-V oil for break in.

[keesue]

As to drain intervals: oil analysis is the only way way to determine the condition of engine oil and when to change. It provides the contents of the oil; i.e, the particulates and amounts that are suspended in the oil after use. Each engine type produces a varying amount of particulates - some more than others - hence the varying oil drain intervals by model, engine and manufacturer. As a point of fact, each manufacturer performs engine oil analysis during their prototype testing period and use this as the basis for the oil change interval recommendations. Unless otherwise stated, they use mineral-based oils in these tests.

As to extended drain intervals: true synthetics, and to a lesser degree hybrid synthetics, have been proven by oil analysis to extend suspension intervals to oil change ratios which can support longer drain intervals. Long haul trucking companies use this as cost savings strategy but back it up by regular oil analysis. The challenge in the absence of oil analysis is 'how long is long enough?' Real-world experience such as those provided here by the Yaris constituency are good indicators with the caveat of risk.

As to MPG and HP gains: the only true test is the dyno. The dyno test is absolute proof of ANY performance gain from ANY modification. Some have experienced real-world gains using synthetics - others have not - as indicated in the varying responses. It may be noteworthy in the buying decision whether oil manufacturers posts dyno test results to prove the performance gains they claim in their ads if they claim this as the reason for using their product. Real-world experience is a good indicator but neither absolute nor universal. Actually, any "add this and you get that" should be backed up by dyno testing. THE DYNO RULES.

What I have proffered herein is not to discount real-world experiences; rather, to lend scientific rigor to the proof. It is best to follow the manufacturers drain interval recommendation using mineral-based oils as they performed the tests to support their recommendation. Given the cost differential of true synthetics, the return on investment is in the extended drain intervals and improvement in MPG/HP. The risk factor notwithtanding - one takes one's chances extending oil change intervals - there is an allure to using synthetics, supported by the real-world experiences by those who use them. (For what its worth, my personal position is to use precisely what the manufacturer recommends as they have done the testing to back their recommendation).

I hope this helps. Man, I sure love this Yaris!!!! It is 'da bomb'!!!

[hystria]

Originally Posted by keesue

As to drain intervals: oil analysis is the only way way to determine the condition of engine oil and when to change. It provides the contents of the oil; i.e, the particulates and amounts that are suspended in the oil after use. Each engine type produces a varying amount of particulates - some more than others - hence the varying oil drain intervals by model, engine and manufacturer. As a point of fact, each manufacturer performs engine oil analysis during their prototype testing period and use this as the basis for the oil change interval recommendations. Unless otherwise stated, they use mineral-based oils in these tests.

As to extended drain intervals: true synthetics, and to a lesser degree hybrid synthetics, have been proven by oil analysis to extend suspension intervals to oil change ratios which can support longer drain intervals. Long haul trucking companies use this as cost savings strategy but back it up by regular oil analysis. The challenge in the absence of oil analysis is 'how long is long enough?' Real-world experience such as those provided here by the Yaris constituency are good indicators with the caveat of risk.

As to MPG and HP gains: the only true test is the dyno. The dyno test is absolute proof of ANY performance gain from ANY modification. Some have experienced real-world gains using synthetics - others have not - as indicated in the varying responses. It may be noteworthy in the buying decision whether oil manufacturers posts dyno test results to prove the performance gains they claim in their ads if they claim this as the reason for using their product. Real-world experience is a good indicator but neither absolute nor universal. Actually, any "add this and you get that" should be backed up by dyno testing. THE DYNO RULES.

What I have proffered herein is not to discount real-world experiences; rather, to lend scientific rigor to the proof. It is best to follow the manufacturers drain interval recommendation using mineral-based oils as they performed the tests to support their recommendation. Given the cost differential of true synthetics, the return on investment is in the extended drain intervals and improvement in MPG/HP. The risk factor notwithtanding - one takes one's chances extending oil change intervals - there is an allure to using synthetics, supported by the real-world experiences by those who use them. (For what its worth, my personal position is to use precisely what the manufacturer recommends as they have done the testing to back their recommendation).

I hope this helps. Man, I sure love this Yaris!!!! It is 'da bomb'!!!

for this post

People must understand this: Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec ARE NOT synthetic oils! There is no benefit to use those two oils, unless you need a better start-up on cold mornings. Synthetic oils that allow for extended oil change intervals, are Mobil 1 Extended Performance (although still not a 100% real synthetic oil), RedLine, Motul, Amsoil, etc.

[jonr0613]

hey guys what do you think of castrol oil???

[jdomville]

When you take any TOYOTA to the dealer for service you will get the same oil as was in the car at the factory. No matter what it sayes on the can (Toyota Oil) it is MOBILE One.
So "Changing to Mobile One" is no big deal. The car had it in it originally and still does unless you foolishly swiitched to something else.
Keeping Mobile One in the vehicle is certainly in step with the warentee besides being the best thing you can do for the long life of the engine. Make sure the filter has a check valve built in it.