Does your liftback have ABS?

[Macel]

Originally Posted by Idjiit

You're filtering the information for your own a priori belief. Have you read the statistics that show how accident rates went up after ABS became popular?

Then perhaps we should fit some kind of explosive device to the bumpers of every car. If you get into a fender bender, BOOM... Dead. That'll make people really careful, and hopefully decrease the accident rate to record lows. That'll also have the nice side effect of no longer needing any car insurance or any accident claims, as all parties involved will be dead should an accident happen.

[plushDJ]

Well yeah, if we have to go to school from kindergarten to grade 12 ( plus college/university) for 13 years + why can't people take a 1 day course on driving??? It's actually stuff that can save your's and other people's lives

[why?]

We have to have real driver training. Make them take a 1 year course and charge them $2,000.

That would stop the people who shouldn't be driving from getting a licence.

Finally I have read what I was getting at.

The technology is meaningless if the driver cannot drive.

I've learned to drive the hard way.

And by that I mean hitting things. Lots of things.

The most important lesson I have learned is that the best way to control a vehicle is to slow down.

If people actually payed attention while they drove, and realized they are two feet behind the car in front of them, and they are going 75 mph, they might start slowing down.

Driving is taken for granted way too much in this country.

I am sure of my driving skills not because I am some genius with tons of skill, but because I actually drove. And got in accidents.

I haven't had an accident in over 5 years now, because I learned to pay attention to driving, and I learned my personal reaction times and tendencies.

I can guarantee I will not need abs because that loser that slammed on his brakes in the middle of the highway is 70 - 100 feet in front of me, and I was going the speed limit.

I can guarantee enough traction because I will slow down to meet the conditions. If thier are white out conditions I will not be going the speed limit on any road.

If I am in a neighborhood I will be looking for people, animals and children, and I will slow down while I am driving by them. If I feel someone is too close to the road and looks like they are going to do something stupid, I might stop, instead of barreling along out of control.

I'll tell you this, I am not some super talented driver. I was never implying any such thing.

Just the opposite, in fact. I am about as super cautious as a human can be.

That is how you do not get into accidents. It has nothing to do with ability and everything to do with patience and cautiousness.

That is how you drive safely.

[Macel]

Originally Posted by why?

I can guarantee enough traction because I will slow down to meet the conditions. If thier are white out conditions I will not be going the speed limit on any road.

You don't need to be going anywhere near the speed limit to lose control in whiteout conditions.

I've been driving for 8 years now and I havent been in an accident. I'm driving a car without ABS. Just this last Thanksgiving, I was doing 15-20 mph on some back roads in a 40mph zone, during the first storm of the year (driving in to work). On a curve, I lost steering and my only recourse was to try and tap the brakes to slow down. Im sure with ABS I would have stopped in time, but without it I slid straight off the road and into a sign, causing about a grand worth of damage to the car. Granted, the car was terrible in the snow, but I was really wishing I had ABS right then.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Macel

You don't need to be going anywhere near the speed limit to lose control in whiteout conditions.

I've been driving for 8 years now and I havent been in an accident. I'm driving a car without ABS. Just this last Thanksgiving, I was doing 15-20 mph on some back roads in a 40mph zone, during the first storm of the year (driving in to work). On a curve, I lost steering and my only recourse was to try and tap the brakes to slow down. Im sure with ABS I would have stopped in time, but without it I slid straight off the road and into a sign, causing about a grand worth of damage to the car. Granted, the car was terrible in the snow, but I was really wishing I had ABS right then.

ABS wouldn't have helped. There is a very nasty road that I drive every day to go anywhere. When there is any type of snow there is one particular corner where someone has always gone off the road. I've taken that corner at 10 miles an hour during a snowstorm and slid across the road when I foolishly hit the brakes in a car with ABS. Hitting the brakes in that situation simply doesn't help at all whether or not you have ABS. In some cases, actually stepping on the gas and making the tires spin will help to regain traction.

Sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do to avoid an accident.

[ricko]

Amen to proper training for all drivers, whether it is a year long course or a shorter more intensive one. While we are at it let's beef up the testing, and initiate a re-testing program on a regular basis. I don't what the regs are in the U.S., but I'll be 55 this week and haven't been tested since I was 16.

[plushDJ]

why?----well said!!!

[bB2NER]

What do we look for to know if our hatch has ABS?

[SilverBack]

Originally Posted by jnjfishnuts@yahoo.com

What do we look for to know if our hatch has ABS?

Slam on the brakes in a dry and empty parking lot going in a straight line. If you lock-up then you got no ABS

[ricko]

Idjiit, I am not filtering anything. That's why I asked if you had ANY sources of contrary opinions. Nothing I came across (admittedly Canadian sources) indicated anything but improved control under panick braking for less skilled drivers. BTW where can I get stopping distances for vehicles like the Durango. I know NOTHING about trucks. At least I am taking the time to research the topic, as opposed to some people who choose to use 1 personal situation to condemn the technology.

[Idjiit]

http://www.aa1car.com/library/abs98f.htm

[ricko]

Thanks Idjiit, a very interesting article. Everyone should read this ....... twice. I'll wait until tomorrow to respond, off to a photo assignment, I need the $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[Idjiit]

Ultimately the information on ABS statistics isn't clear cut, but what why? is saying is absolutely true - ABS is no replacement for a well-trained driver. Driver's education in the US is fucking ridiculous. We've got a friend from South Africa who says that down there they go through a serious drivers education program, including lots of hours in the car doing accident avoidance, etc. That's much more worthwhile than just throwing technology at a car.

[SmellyTofu]

Originally Posted by Idjiit

ABS is no replacement for a well-trained driver.

[Dweeb]

^^ oh... 2 seconds or 20 feet will solve the problem jk

Dweeb

[ricko]

Agreed Idjiit the stats of that article really don't resolve anything. In fact we could spend the next month going over various studies both for and against ABS, and I don't think we would see a clear cut answer. What we do agree on is a proper driver training and testing is needed. The situation in Canada is a joke, and from the sounds of it the same is true in the U.S.A. Until drivers understand the operation and use of ALL systems in their vehicles (including ABS if they have it) and have the opps to try them in emergency situations, under controlled conditions (ie. skidpad), we will continue to have thousands of avoidable accidents. After all, there is not much point in pulling the ripcord on your parachute, after you have hit the ground.

[Ziv]

I would Highly prefer NOT having it then do.

[bB2NER]

I checked the fuse box under the hood and there is no relay for the ABS so I ain't got ABS.