Yaris Sedan Deadening and Sound system upgrade

[derickveliz2]

3 days with out electricity!

Only updates I have: tuning and more tuning Pink Noise is great!

Got hit with the snow storm, no power, no heat, no water, no nothing...
a tree in our drive way and almost 14 inches of snow...
Grounded for now at my fathers place.







Take notice... Yaris in the Garage...

D.

[patm]

Florida anyone ?

makes us appreciate the things we take for granted.

Hope all is well.

[sqcomp]

Well damn D...

I took the advice. Mine's in the garage. :)

[derickveliz2]

We are back! power is back, heat is back, water is back... so tomorrow more carving into the a-frame to get the mids in there!

D.

[patm]

Excellent. Now I can tune into my favorite soap opera again. Let the progress begin.

D really nice pictures on your postings. What are you using for a camera.

P

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by patm

Excellent. Now I can tune into my favorite soap opera again. Let the progress begin.

D really nice pictures on your postings. What are you using for a camera.

P

Thanks,
Well, some times I use my cell phone (not very good) some times I use a point and shoot (so so) the good shots are thanks to my old Nikon SLR- D50

D.

[derickveliz2]

Ok, I just had some fun with my dremel, sparks and every thing else! in the A-frame!!!
I made enough space to get the HL-70 (MIDs) in there, thinking that some day I'll put a L3SE.

Pictures to follow...

D.

[derickveliz2]

Here is the A-Frame Pilot's side remaining parts over the template I made, this is to build the baffle:




After cutting the metal, I have enough space for my speaker:










The A-frame with the HL-70 all the way in:






The A-frame with the HL-70 with template:





I really don't know how I'm going to manage all the wires, I assume it's "ok" to leave them next to the speaker, because what I really want is the Off-Axis response...

D.

[TOLMACH]

What exactly do you mean by @off axis response@ ? (like speaker not at all pointing at the listener is your goal ?)

))

good to see you returned to your place!

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by TOLMACH

What exactly do you mean by @off axis response@ ? (like speaker not at all pointing at the listener is your goal ?)

))

good to see you returned to your place!

Thanks, finally we are back, every thing is ok.

Yes the speakers (MIDs) are going to be facing each other, as far forward from my ears and trying to get them as far from each other, the maximum distance between each speaker possible.

D.

[derickveliz2]

OK.... here is some thing I discovered and help me to learn about music in a car...

I hope this helps others to understand why we struggle to get a center image and what exactly does it means...

Why so much tuning and changing our systems to get the most of them... so to me was hard because I have nobody local to show me what a SQ sound system is all about: I called 3Dimentional music where you can localize the singer for example, and of course it should be in the center (of the stage) of your car above your instrument panel (for Yaris) and the farther away from the listener the better, but...

What I was trying to accomplish when playing with Time Alignment? I wasn't sure of what to look for so I did this:

With a home system with 2 speakers (see picture #1 below), play a few songs (some tracks are better than others to show you this wonderful example), get between the speakers right in the center, very close (see picture #2 below) and listen.... sudenly you will feel the singer in the middle in my scenario right above my head, like magic, (Picture #3) like if I had a 3rd speaker for center channel specifically for the singer, in some other tracks it was a drum or other instrument, give it a try and see if you can listen to the 3Dimentional aspect of the music...

Then try to do it in your car... things get more complicated been on the left side (pilot's side), in a very small area, with glass around you, it's like the worst scenario and without Time Alignment it probably won't happen.

Picture # 1


Picture #2


Picture #3


D.

[TOLMACH]

Thanks, Derick, very interesting to see your progress / experiments.. I kind of remember myself back in 2006 - when I first installed midranges in my car - I made three different types of podiums within couple months (then I had to sell that car)

[sqcomp]

I've produced some glass shells that fit onto the side there in the kicks. I want to change the angle upwards on mine.

When you plugin the crossovers between the mid range and the tweeter, look for somewhere around 3.5 kHz to 5.5 kHz.

I know that my stage is about an inch or two above the dash with the mids down in the kicks. It's lower than with the mids in the pillars...BUT...you have a bit wider of a stage and still get to keep the center image.

If you want to scope out some L3SEs, prowl around the hybrid audio forums and ask. I would imagine a couple of the guys have a pair that they might sell off. It can't hurt to ask. Also, don't hesitate to drop my name with the team guys. They might charge you double though. :)

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

I've produced some glass shells that fit onto the side there in the kicks. I want to change the angle upwards on mine.

When you plugin the crossovers between the mid range and the tweeter, look for somewhere around 3.5 kHz to 5.5 kHz.

I know that my stage is about an inch or two above the dash with the mids down in the kicks. It's lower than with the mids in the pillars...BUT...you have a bit wider of a stage and still get to keep the center image.

Why aim up? just curious.

Yes 3.5 kHz that's where I'm right now as a 2 way and works great, the stage is like you have it, and overall sounds much better than with the3 way and the MIDs in the a-pillars.

I did cut the right side, but my dremel needs some spare parts to finish. Jeje can't wait to get the 3 way working again with the MIDs in the a-frame.

D.

[sqcomp]

I'll be working the finishing glass and set in place with the kick panel on Monday. I'll throw some pics then. Until then I'm off to the M-4 range with the rest of the section. Gotta play with some NVGs too...

Why aim up? They're angled up about 30 degrees and out towards the source unit. Just getting a little more on axis.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Why aim up? They're angled up about 30 degrees and out towards the source unit. Just getting a little more on axis.

I didn't like when I had my mids in an angle, Maybe been so close to my ears (a-pillar install) didn't work for me I know I had them more than 30 degrees but less than 45 degrees, isn't that against the document that Schott B. points at for "Advance System Installation? Brrrrrt after reading Lesson One, I guess 30 degrees it's ok, what do you gain or benefit with 30 degrees?, my judgment and very little experience tell me go "off-axis" completely.

"Lesson One: Off-Axis Response
When a speaker system like the Legatia is placed in an automotive environment, we hear the direct
(shortest path) and reflected (longer path) sounds, such as resonances and reverberations. The two
sounds are processed by the brain as one sound, and this influences our perception of height, width,
and depth of soundstage, as well as rearward ambience. For this reason, the off-axis radiation pattern
of any speaker in a vehicular environment has a significant influence on how natural the music
sounds.
The lesson to learn here is that most mobile audio sound systems benefit greatly from having the
front stage speakers at least partially “off-axis.” Off-axis means that the speakers are not pointing at
you, but rather at some angle less than 90 degrees away from you."

D

[TOLMACH]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

I didn't like when I had my mids in an angle, Maybe been so close to my ears (a-pillar install) didn't work for me I know I had them more than 30 degrees but less than 45 degrees, isn't that against the document that Schott B. points at for "Advance System Installation? Brrrrrt after reading Lesson One, I guess 30 degrees it's ok, what do you gain or benefit with 30 degrees?, my judgment and very little experience tell me go "off-axis" completely.

"Lesson One: Off-Axis Response
When a speaker system like the Legatia is placed in an automotive environment, we hear the direct
(shortest path) and reflected (longer path) sounds, such as resonances and reverberations. The two
sounds are processed by the brain as one sound, and this influences our perception of height, width,
and depth of soundstage, as well as rearward ambience. For this reason, the off-axis radiation pattern
of any speaker in a vehicular environment has a significant influence on how natural the music
sounds.
The lesson to learn here is that most mobile audio sound systems benefit greatly from having the
front stage speakers at least partially “off-axis.” Off-axis means that the speakers are not pointing at
you, but rather at some angle less than 90 degrees away from you."

D

It is always a trade-off between stage (off axis sometimes helps this) and SQ.. you can make some temporary pods/baffles to try different speaker positions

[derickveliz2]

Couple of thoughts about my I6SW and IDQ12...

For 2 days I went back to the IDQ12 in the trunk, to compare with the new I6SW...
Yes it's a little louder, specially to the outside world, the gain from been in the trunk is noticeable, but my seat vibrates, and after a while kind of bothers my hears, this is where too much bass is not all ways a good thing, at least to me, where my goal is pure sound and the WOW! factor with out been LOUD.

Long story-short... I'm very pleased with the I6SW up front, the SQ level I get it's wonderful, having the bass hit my chest it's awesome.

D.