"Parmas" Motor

[cali yaris]

Stock valve springs are designed to work with the stock rev limit and the stock lift and ramp angles on the cams.

Correct. Although I will say we are doing fine up to 7200 so far, all valve parts are stock.

[rob323]

That's good to know there's some head room left in the valve train, thanks Garm.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Correct. Although I will say we are doing fine up to 7200 so far, all valve parts are stock.

I thought you rev limit to 6500? Can you give more info on the 7200?

Does it increase power or remain constant between 6.5-7.2?

[cali yaris]

don't worry if they float, I'll post it!

[rob323]

Do they float/ bounce?

[cali yaris]

we wanted to increase the rev limit to at least 8,000 rpm or above.

Looking forward to your dynos, that will be really cool!

@ Parmas: we have the limiter at 7200 but if you've looked at my dynos, it quits making power about 6500.

It MIGHT make power up higher with the new custom intake manifold. Next tuning session will tell us a lot more.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

@ Parmas: we have the limiter at 7200 but if you've looked at my dynos, it quits making power about 6500.

Yes I saw that before but I thought you got it making power till 7200 after that.

BTW I heard some ppl saying that water injection reduces power output when used. I mean if you run the same setup with for example 16psi with water injection and dyno compare it without, it will result to a slight power decrease. Is this true?

[eTiMaGo]

possibly, any volume taken up by water vapor is not filled with air/fuel mixture... Not sure how big of a difference it would make, but it's a small compromise to be able to run on pump gas!

[cali yaris]

BTW I heard some ppl saying that water injection reduces power output when used.

"some people saying" means nothing to me. Show me some results and I will be very interested, although I'm not trading away the ability to run high boost on pump gas - that is way too much fun to give up!

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

"some people saying" means nothing to me. Show me some results and I will be very interested, although I'm not trading away the ability to run high boost on pump gas - that is way too much fun to give up!

In my opinion Water Injection is used to cool mixture and to be able to run higher boost values but with that said, doesn't mean it gives you power by itself. Is that right?

I happen to be in a forum to discuss these things before commiting myself into it. I am not saying they are right or wrong, I just want your opinions like Etimago commented and I am sure all good things have their bad things.
I don't carry lots of cash to try these things, I am here to knowledge myself more and prevent disappointment for future upgrades..

[cali yaris]

^ I'm here for that too, have learned a lot. Yes, I would agree that water doesn't add power by itself. But at cooler intake/cylinder temperatures (which is what the water does), more fuel is in the available air, and that makes more power. This would be true whether or not there is boost.

A good example of this is that a Cold Air Intake adds power to a stock car (n/a), simply by cooling down the incoming air. Water injection does the same thing, to my understanding.

What I meant was "some people saying" doesn't help any of us. Doesn't it depend on who said it, when they said it, and what they were talking about? So my request, respectfully is to be more specific in that regard.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

A good example of this is that a Cold Air Intake adds power to a stock car (n/a), simply by cooling down the incoming air. Water injection does the same thing, to my understanding.

I understand your thought so I ask what is the better?

- Having a very good intercooler that keeps the air as cold as possible

OR

- Cooling Mixture with water injection

In my opinion cooling the air without water injection by having a better intercooler is the point were you will see power gains without compensating with extra boost (less wear and tear). What are your opinions on this guys?

[cali yaris]

It's just as easy to do water/meth injection and get the octane boost from the alcohol. I wouldn't bother with all the effort for just water.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

It's just as easy to do water/meth injection and get the octane boost from the alcohol. I wouldn't bother with all the effort for just water.

Can you tell us by how much the water injection on your setup lowered the intake temps ?

[cali yaris]

No, (1) because we changed the manifold too and (2) we haven't tuned on the dyno yet (wastegate failed last time).

Hoping for a new appointment next week!

[changchewsoon]

thanks a lot garm and parmas, it is because of people like you guys all over the world inspires people like to me to want to push the 1nz-fe further! :)

i too can't wait to see garm's latest update and also parmas's build....man just thinking about them gives me goosebumps!

i've learnt a lot just by reading both your threads.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by changchewsoon

thanks a lot garm and parmas, it is because of people like you guys all over the world inspires people like to me to want to push the 1nz-fe further! :)

i too can't wait to see garm's latest update and also parmas's build....man just thinking about them gives me goosebumps!

i've learnt a lot just by reading both your threads.

That is why we post here my friend !

Of course we are many here and I think there are more than just us building the ultimate 1NZ so please contribute your info

[Parmas]

Update:

Let me revise the situation.... During the last months I had my tuner claiming that the problem of the tune up was coming from a loss of compression. Since there were too much money to repair and buy the extra parts I decided to hold the project until I had further cash in my hands.

During the time, I came accross one of my friends who is an expert on this and decided to help me out on this. Of course we began by checking the compression again and duhhh it came out that it is good on all 4 cyclinders. We retried again the test and still no problems.

Seeing this out he told me to change the tuner and retry the tune again. I went to talk with the new tuner and he told me that we need to check all the necessary wiring in case the previous tuner messed up something. We indeed found some wiring not matching with the ecu instruction manual regarding VVT connection so this might be the problem.

The other thing that might mess up with the tune is that the ECU supports VVT but not VVTi. There is an option to activate the VVT at a certain rpm and switch it off at another rpm. I contacted the ecu company for more info on this and he said that the ecu was tested and tuned succesfully on a 1ZZFE VVTi engine.

I booked a tuning session for next week so until then crossed fingers