Another S/C'd member worried about his AFR

[LtNoogie]

14.7 - 14.9 but I'll do some runs tonight when I have to climb several hills.

no boost pressure

[Nexus1155]

thats what you are suppose to see when it is off. I usually get 14.5-14.7 when cruising in the truck. WOT goes to like 12.7 - 13.2. Factory did a decent job tuning fuel already

[PETERPOOP]

Ok. So I won't be doing the larger injectors and 1zz throttle body. I'll be waiting for long to get the numbers on friday afternoon and see what largeorange has to say then.

[eTiMaGo]

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15488

this might be worth trying *just* to see what it does to the AFR... forcing the car to be in warmup mode sounds like a very half-assed (quarter-assed?) way of tuning a car, but desperate times can call for desperate measures

[Doc Zaius]

Yeah, ScanGauge definitely does not do injector duty cycle. What would? Some type of logger. That would certainly help narrow down some of the issues!

[PETERPOOP]

Interesting. Since it only increases when boost increases, are those intervals too short for the ECU to catch on?

[jkuchta]

The ARK Design MFD has the provision to display injector duty cycle. I'm going to try and wire it up this weekend!


An Air/Water intercooler might be possible with the blitz kit, but it will require some fabrication (probably a lot!).

[cali yaris]

I believe the Blitz R-Vit can control a/f with additional percentage.

[LtNoogie]

I have not heard audible evidence of knocking like I did before I filled up with 91 octane. The only reason that I am guessing there is knocking is the ingition timing being retarded. I know others have to add octane boosters to stop their audible knocking.

I'll reset the ECU on Sunday and try the tests suggested.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

I have not heard audible evidence of knocking like I did before I filled up with 91 octane. The only reason that I am guessing there is knocking is the ingition timing being retarded. I know others have to add octane boosters to stop their audible knocking.

I'll reset the ECU on Sunday and try the tests suggested.

Yea you are going to need to run 91 all the time now. Do you have the wiring diagram for your black box? It sounds like my suspicion that Blitz changed what the black box does might be true according to Camelll.

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by camelll

Are you using the r-vit? If so get on it and let us know how it works.



This information is for the R-fit and not the r-vit and (can be used in conjunction though) is from 2004 but it is the latest updated list they have on the blitz website page 25, does not show the ncp91. This could be a little out of date but .

I am curious if someone is gonna try the r-vit though to see if it is gonna work.

It should work, in theory when you're in open loop you can tweak all you want within the limitations of the fuel pressure and injectors?

Originally Posted by largeorangefont

Yea you are going to need to run 91 all the time now. Do you have the wiring diagram for your black box? It sounds like my suspicion that Blitz changed what the black box does might be true according to Camelll.

Yeah I am still not sure how the clutch gets the information from the gear... sounds like it ties in to the starter circuitry (the part which requires you to press the clutch on a manual, or have the auto in P or N before the engine will crank).

Anyway, looking at the new data Pavel logged, it looks like there is a correlation between throttle % and closed loop mode. It was a pretty short run but it looks like above 75% throttle, the system switches to open loop. So, perhaps the blitz unit is reporting 100% throttle to the ECU no matter what, once it kicks in the SC?
Now this is something that Long can check with the scangauge, see what is the reported throttle angle once the SC kicks in... If it jumps from actual throttle position (say 50%) to a much higher value, then bingo, we know how to trigger open loop safely

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

It should work, in theory when you're in open loop you can tweak all you want within the limitations of the fuel pressure and injectors?



Yeah I am still not sure how the clutch gets the information from the gear... sounds like it ties in to the starter circuitry (the part which requires you to press the clutch on a manual, or have the auto in P or N before the engine will crank).

Anyway, looking at the new data Pavel logged, it looks like there is a correlation between throttle % and closed loop mode. It was a pretty short run but it looks like above 75% throttle, the system switches to open loop. So, perhaps the blitz unit is reporting 100% throttle to the ECU no matter what, once it kicks in the SC?
Now this is something that Long can check with the scangauge, see what is the reported throttle angle once the SC kicks in... If it jumps from actual throttle position (say 50%) to a much higher value, then bingo, we know how to trigger open loop safely

Yes, Long could check that, but I think the system is more sophisticated than that. There are many other systems that require correct and accurate reporting of throttle position.

There is more than one metric that triggers open loop. Generally speaking there is RPM, Load, and TPS. Depending on the ECU, the car could be using one or all 3 as reference points.

[changchewsoon]

Hi,

I hope its OK for me to post here although I'm running a boosted Vios rather then a charged one, I have a Greddy Informeter Touch which plugs in to the OBDII connector to monitor all engine parameters, and I've also got a Innovate LC-1 Wideband O2 to monitor my air/fuel ratio.

I just want to share with everyone that by using E-Manage Blue, my tuner is able to get the ECU to run at a constant A/F ratio of 12 during WOT and a AF ratio of 14 during close loop. My wideband O2 display confirms this.

I'm currently using the base + ignition + injector harness for the E-Manage.

Hope the dyno chart is able to provide a better idea, hope it helps.

Please do not hesitate to ask me if you need any information, I'll try my best to share.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RQcAxTVtNR...Dyno-Chart.JPG

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by changchewsoon

Hi,

I hope its OK for me to post here although I'm running a boosted Vios rather then a charged one, I have a Greddy Informeter Touch which plugs in to the OBDII connector to monitor all engine parameters, and I've also got a Innovate LC-1 Wideband O2 to monitor my air/fuel ratio.

I just want to share with everyone that by using E-Manage Blue, my tuner is able to get the ECU to run at a constant A/F ratio of 12 during WOT and a AF ratio of 14 during close loop. My wideband O2 display confirms this.

I'm currently using the base + ignition + injector harness for the E-Manage.

Hope the dyno chart is able to provide a better idea, hope it helps.

Please do not hesitate to ask me if you need any information, I'll try my best to share.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RQcAxTVtNR...Dyno-Chart.JPG

This is an example of the AFR you want to see on a WOT pull guys.

What are you injector duty cycles, and are you still running stock injectors?

[changchewsoon]

I'm currently running stock injectors, but I have 2 additional injectors soldered near to the throttle body controlled by the piggy back.

If I'm not mistaken, the opening/closing time of the injectors are at around 20ms during WOT near the RPM limit.

The duty cycle is around 87% for the stock injectors during WOT near the RPM limit. I always thought that anything above 80% is bad however we've done many hours of extensive testing and the newer version of the Toyota VVT-i injectors are actually quite reliable.

We've also checked with TRD Thailand, as their Turbo Vios are also running the same stock injectors, they too have also done extensive testing on the injectors to ensure their reliability.

However, I'm not too sure whether is there any difference between JDM and USDM specs though.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by changchewsoon

I'm currently running stock injectors, but I have 2 additional injectors soldered near to the throttle body controlled by the piggy back.

If I'm not mistaken, the opening/closing time of the injectors are at around 20ms during WOT near the RPM limit.

The duty cycle is around 87% for the stock injectors during WOT near the RPM limit. I always thought that anything above 80% is bad however we've done many hours of extensive testing and the newer version of the Toyota VVT-i injectors are actually quite reliable.

We've also checked with TRD Thailand, as their Turbo Vios are also running the same stock injectors, they too have also done extensive testing on the injectors to ensure their reliability.

However, I'm not too sure whether is there any difference between JDM and USDM specs though.

Great info. Just to clarify, the 87% duty is NOT while using your extra injectors correct?

Most modern injectors you can run in the low 90% range without issue, so I would say you are fine at your current power level.

[changchewsoon]

Yes actually it is 87% duty while using the extra injectors.

I do agree with you on running on the low 90% range for modern injectors, as a matter of fact we actually pushed the stock injectors pass the 97% mark and it actually holds up pretty well.

[LtNoogie]

I did not get a chance to run the test and I'm off to D.C. for a week of work.