What Does "Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions" Mean Anyway???

[frownonfun]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I do understand it, but there has to be some consistency. For one, people are going to have to learn that not everything is going to be to their liking. If someone else doesn't like GW Bush or Obama, they should be free to post those opinions. And if someone disagrees, they should be able to do so as well. Freedom of speech was something our forefathers here in the US valued enough to make it the first amendment to our Constitution. I understand not tolerating threats and such, or personal attacks; but some threads are being deleted simply because of overzealous moderation in my opinion (or am I even allowed to say that? )

If you disagree with someone's viewpoints, you can try to persuade them through good use of rhetoric. It still may not convince them, but it may educate them or someone else. That is the value of healthy discussion and debate...practiced in societies since the dawn of civilization...

i'm ok with disagreements. and frankly i'm ok with people hurling nasty insults at one another. it can be entertaining at times when you aren't involved in the argument. but i can see why the mods' point of view would differ. and sometimes it may seem like a thread is walking too fine a line and i reckon it's just easier to close it before things get ugly. you call it being overzealous and i'd say maybe they are just trying to err on the side of caution.

and don't get me wrong i love to argue about politics and religion. it's just one of those things i really love to do. but i just don't think it's good for this site. so i'm ok with avoiding those two topics. you might come across some political thread with some educational value every once in a blue moon but i think the majority of the time it's gonna be people flying virtual jetliners into other people's virtual twin towers. and i hope no one takes offense to that. i don't mean any. i'm just trying to illustrate how crazy people get when it comes to these two subjects.

[yaris-me]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I do understand it, but there has to be some consistency. For one, people are going to have to learn that not everything is going to be to their liking. If someone else doesn't like GW Bush or Obama, they should be free to post those opinions. And if someone disagrees, they should be able to do so as well. Freedom of speech was something our forefathers here in the US valued enough to make it the first amendment to our Constitution. I understand not tolerating threats and such, or personal attacks; but some threads are being deleted simply because of overzealous moderation in my opinion (or am I even allowed to say that? )

If you disagree with someone's viewpoints, you can try to persuade them through good use of rhetoric. It still may not convince them, but it may educate them or someone else. That is the value of healthy discussion and debate...practiced in societies since the dawn of civilization...

I don't understand why you are trying to force your will on everyone. If you were fair minded, you would ask for a vote. But you are not. You just bitch and moan to everyone's discontent.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by tomato

Soooooooooooooo... MadMax, did I ever manage to convice you that there is more to California than just "fruits and nuts?"

(I'm just messing with ya, harmless joke!)

Well, ya almost did, until someone from California posted this...

Originally Posted by yaris-me

I don't understand why you are trying to force your will on everyone. If you were fair minded, you would ask for a vote. But you are not. You just bitch and moan to everyone's discontent.

Wow, yaris-me, did your feelings get hurt somehow? If you have an opinion, post it; but all you are doing is launching a personal attack on someone without any evidence to back it up. I'm not being "fair-minded?" Where do you get that? I am asking for the ability for everyone on here to be able to post their opinions and to have healthy discussion without the kind of comments like the ones you just posted! And I also like how you speak for and represent the entire group. I was posting my opinion, but you have polled the entire population of this forum and found that my comments have been considered 100% as being discontenting by the entire group! Wow, I am impressed with your thoroughness!

Actually, you are actually providing a good counter-argument, which is maybe some people on here aren't mature enough to participate in adult discussions!

If people are not able to handle some aggressive discussion, then they can steer clear of the "off-topic, everything else" area of the forum, or at least threads that appear political. But all I am advocating is the ability to discuss non-Yaris issues on here without the immediate slam-dunk of a moderator.

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

i suggested a TV/MOVIE/GAMING section but was shot down saying it belonged in the off topic section. TRUE, but that section is dead and maybe a slight change would bring some lifE back in here in my opinion.

[ChinoCharles]

I closed MadDog's thread because I made the determination that nothing was going to come out of it. I say that meaning no offense to Tony, who is an awesome member and a good person, but the point of the thread was "what can we do to make Yarisworld more exciting." The answer is nothing. We can't install a ferris wheel on Yarisworld. It is only as exciting as the subject matter. This forum in particular turned into kind of a hang out spot about 18 months ago for a lot of us (me included) and I think since then discussion has become less and less Yaris-centric, and I'm starting to think it isn't such a good thing. I spend way too much time replying to threads like this. This thread is a direct result of the off-topic section getting out of hand.

Two things. One, if we do close your thread don't take it as a personal attack. 95% of threads I close are due to a later post and not the OP. Second, and I've said this before... threads are expendable. If I see a thread that I predict won't end well, I'll close it before things get out of hand. After 2+ years and 8,000+ posts here, I have a pretty good understanding of when that will happen and the other mods do too.

Actually, you are actually providing a good counter-argument, which is maybe some people on here aren't mature enough to participate in adult discussions!

I wanted to highlight this comment and speak on this a bit. If YOU (all of you) want to be mature, do this... save me and the rest of the mod staff a heap of trouble and stop posting politics on Yarisworld. This isn't the place. Our membership is ENTIRELY too diverse for this kind of discussion. We have 50+ year old right wingers paying almost half their income in taxes arguing with 20-something dems who just got done spending 8 of their formative years watching the media demonize George W. Bush. Maturity is realizing why the previous scenario doesn't work.

Final thing I want to say... you guys are one hard group to moderate. Without naming names, I'll say that some of you are entirely too vehement about posting your personal beliefs. It baits other members into pissing matches, a phenomenon I myself get caught in as well. I'll be the first to admit it. My beliefs are as strong as anyone, but after the election I generally stopped posting threads about politics as that cycle taught me its a bad idea on these forums. Its cool to get caught in some banter every once in a while and get IBTL, but we have a few members that are just SO persistent in their posting of subject matter that has nothing to do with the car. Go back and look at the threads you've created. If a majority have nothing to do with the Yaris, you should reconsider your place on this forum.

As of yesterday, political threads are no longer welcome here. Moderators will decide what is politics and what is automotive economics. Don't bother "calling us out" if you think we closed something that isn't truly political. Again, threads are expendable. A good forum atmosphere isn't. If this isn't something you can stomach, I apologize, but that policy isn't changing.

If you want to revitalize Yarisworld, walk into your garage and start brainstorming.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

I closed MadDog's thread because I made the determination that nothing was going to come out of it. I say that meaning no offense to Tony, who is an awesome member and a good person, but the point of the thread was "what can we do to make Yarisworld more exciting." The answer is nothing. We can't install a ferris wheel on Yarisworld. It is only as exciting as the subject matter. This forum in particular turned into kind of a hang out spot about 18 months ago for a lot of us (me included) and I think since then discussion has become less and less Yaris-centric, and I'm starting to think it isn't such a good thing. I spend way too much time replying to threads like this. This thread is a direct result of the off-topic section getting out of hand.

Two things. One, if we do close your thread don't take it as a personal attack. 95% of threads I close are due to a later post and not the OP. Second, and I've said this before... threads are expendable. If I see a thread that I predict won't end well, I'll close it before things get out of hand. After 2+ years and 8,000+ posts here, I have a pretty good understanding of when that will happen and the other mods do too.

I wanted to highlight this comment and speak on this a bit. If YOU (all of you) want to be mature, do this... save me and the rest of the mod staff a heap of trouble and stop posting politics on Yarisworld. This isn't the place. Our membership is ENTIRELY too diverse for this kind of discussion. We have 50+ year old right wingers paying almost half their income in taxes arguing with 20-something dems who just got done spending 8 of their formative years watching the media demonize George W. Bush. Maturity is realizing why the previous scenario doesn't work.

Final thing I want to say... you guys are one hard group to moderate. Without naming names, I'll say that some of you are entirely too vehement about posting your personal beliefs. It baits other members into pissing matches, a phenomenon I myself get caught in as well. I'll be the first to admit it. My beliefs are as strong as anyone, but after the election I generally stopped posting threads about politics as that cycle taught me its a bad idea on these forums. Its cool to get caught in some banter every once in a while and get IBTL, but we have a few members that are just SO persistent in their posting of subject matter that has nothing to do with the car. Go back and look at the threads you've created. If a majority have nothing to do with the Yaris, you should reconsider your place on this forum.

As of yesterday, political threads are no longer welcome here. Moderators will decide what is politics and what is automotive economics. Don't bother "calling us out" if you think we closed something that isn't truly political. Again, threads are expendable. A good forum atmosphere isn't. If this isn't something you can stomach, I apologize, but that policy isn't changing.

If you want to revitalize Yarisworld, walk into your garage and start brainstorming.

That was a good honest account of what's happening.

[tomato]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

I closed MadDog's thread because ...

Thanks for taking the time to write out that detailed answer.

[eTiMaGo]

Thanks Charles, I could not have said it better.

[Deltasix]

I would imagine making Yarisworld better would be done easily enough by revitalizing it. I find it mildly disturbing that one who has obviously put so much time and effort into making this the awesome place that it is would think it impossible to make it better. There are many things, some of them pointed out in the aforementioned thread that was closed, the one started by MadDog, that point out some issues that make this forum, at times, "Less than awesome."

A forum is not only as good as its subject matter, it is only as good as its member base, something I strongly believe having joined many web forums in the past, all of them on a wide variety of subjects. Moreover, that member base is not growing too much. Sure, the number of new members might be constant (especially counting spam bots of sorts) but the number of new members that stay and constantly post are slim, and there is reasoning for that too. I would agree with a lot of the posts in MadDog’s thread, “noobish” members and the like, but probably not in the same way they mean it. When a new member comes in and posts a question, one that may have been covered in the past, or might even seem a bit “out there” rather than berating them, why not simply answer politely? Monitoring those activities would be something I’d be more concerned about as a moderator, rather than is healthy political discussion occurring in a section titled “everything else,” because a forum only survives and thrives based on it’s member base, not on it’s subject material.

I do wish the point out that when I’ve had an issue, moderators I’ve talked to have been nothing but helpful. And trust me, I know how difficult (and at times unrewarding) running anything, let alone a webforum, can be, and I, and I’d venture a good deal others, do appreciate the hard work you guys do to make this a fun place to be, but rather than be upset about the need to respond to “threads like these,” I would be happy about the reasonable, thought out responses your member base is offering to help you make this forum a better place. In my experience, the politeness shown here is often not so, and it’s a testament to the respect the moderators command here that if there is an issue like this, members don’t feel the need to lash out or be childish (at least most of the time).

Oh, and as for the subject at hand, I’d really consider making a subforum in the “everything else” section for more mature discussion. Move everything into there that relates with domestic and world politics, economics, etc, and highlight it as a place that demands maturity. Heck, put ChinoCharles’s great adage in the description itself, “if you don't like it, don't click on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

[ChinoCharles]

Any time!

[tomato]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Any time!

I didn't say I agree but I understand and I appreciate the effort you put in that answer.

What, somebody's gotta say it!

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

how much longer til this is locked seeing as answer was posted in reply#25.....

[MadMax]

OK, here's another idea, what about a restricted access "off-topic, everything else" area that requires a moderator approval to join?

Of course, that would also mean a moderator could throw people out as well!

Thoughts?

Cheers! M2

[tomato]

Originally Posted by MadMax

OK, here's another idea, what about a restricted access "off-topic, everything else" area that requires a moderator approval to join?

Of course, that would also mean a moderator could throw people out as well!

Thoughts?

Cheers! M2

Hmmm.. moderating that one sounds like a full time job, 24/7 !

On the other hand, you could have a "restricted" section with some kind of a warning "threads in this section may content offensive comments" or whatever.

I've seen that done before, but it's also true that the general tone changes completely.

[jclo3313]

Originally Posted by tomato

On the other hand, you could have a "restricted" section with some kind of a warning "threads in this section may content offensive comments" or whatever.

I've seen that done before, but it's also true that the general tone changes completely.

We do.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/group.php?groupid=23

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/group.php?groupid=13

[ChinoCharles]

OK, here's another idea, what about a restricted access "off-topic, everything else" area that requires a moderator approval to join?

What is the criteria? 50+ and Republican or 30- and Democrat? LOL no way!

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

What is the criteria? 50+ and Republican or 30- and Democrat? LOL no way!

No - 1 on 1, call it ThunderDome!

[KCALB SIRAY]

......and there is no crying in baseball!