Toyota...We're Number....Two???

[kimona]

Originally Posted by thebarber

maybe if toyota made interesting cars, they'd sell more.

Toyota does make some very "interesting" cars, but most of them are only sold in Japan!

[DevilGirl]

WOW!!!! There sure is a lot of hate here on this group for VW. Personally, I like the VW. Not sure what kind of cars either yourselves or friends/family are driving. My boyfriend has 2 VWs. A 2002 Golf TDI and a 2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI. The 2002 was bought last December at 175,000 miles. The only major issue he has had for which the car was down for any length of time was a blown turbo. But at 195k (when it happend), something is bound to happen to it. Other than that, just normal maintenance (oil changes, tires, brakes, air filters, etc).

The main reason I like VW is that they are the only car company that offers an even remotely affordable diesel car in the US. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., they are all waaaaaaaaay too expensive. And, to the best of my knownledge, there are no other diesel cars made available here in the US. Just large trucks/SUVs. A 2009 TDI (Jetta/Jetta Sportwagen) ran somewhere around $24000 (depending upon which options you choose). My boyfriend got his Sportwagen (with power panoramic sunroof, iPod adapter, and various other features) for $20k out the door (C-f-C, and only $1000 down).

If Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chrysler, or whoever else, started offering diesel vehicles other than large trucks/SUVs in the US that were affordable, I'd probably go with one of those as well. But where there is little that is offered in a particular market, of course those types are gonna sell a lot.

[Yaris Hilton]

If the Yaris had been available here with the 1.4L turbodiesel, I'd be driving one.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

If the Yaris had been available here with the 1.4L turbodiesel, I'd be driving one.

Yeah me too. Well I wouldnt have bought a Yaris Diesel but in 2000 my ECHO would have had it. Lucky for me because thats a losing proposition. Youd never recoup your initial purchase price given the price of diesel vs gas. Theyed probably want $20k for a Yaris diesel. Its just like buying a Prius. With a Prius you give the money (maybe three times the money) you would have given to Exxon to Toyota. The car is an engineering and ecomonic fraud.
The best we could do is the 1 liter gas engine. I think if it gets better mileage.

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by bronsin

The car is an engineering and ecomonic fraud.

I disagree. The car delivers on its promise, where is the fraud? You know the price, you get the advertised mpg, where's the problem?

It all depends on how much you're driving, it's simple math, let me give you an example. I'm going to compare the Prius at 50 mpg with a car that gives you, say, 25 mpg, which costs, say $5k less than the Prius.

At 20k miles a year, the Prius will need 400 gallons vs. 800 for our hypothetical car. That's 400 gallons x $2.50 a gallon = $1,000 a year in savings. So after 5 years you break even on your investment and anything after that is pure savings into your pocket.

At 30k miles a year you break even after 3.3 years.
At 40k miles a year you break even after 2.5 years.

There is no fraud, you just need to do the math and see if it makes sense for you. Since I'm driving less than 10k miles a year, I wouldn't consider it. But it's just math, no emotions/politics...

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by DevilGirl

WOW!!!! There sure is a lot of hate here on this group for VW.
.

No hate here just the facts. VW makes a defect prone car. Once they made defective ignition modules that failed. There were so many of them they couldnt make new ignition modules fast enough to replace them all. (you have to wonder why they couldnt) Nothing could be adapted to fit. So some folks waited MONTHS with an undrivable car. NEVER NEVER NEVER wil I buy a VW.

[DevilGirl]

Originally Posted by bronsin

No hate here just the facts. VW makes a defect prone car. Once they made defective ignition modules that failed. There were so many of them they couldnt make new ignition modules fast enough to replace them all. (you have to wonder why they couldnt) Nothing could be adapted to fit. So some folks waited MONTHS with an undrivable car. NEVER NEVER NEVER wil I buy a VW.

TDI or non-TDI? There is actually significant difference between the two. I will never touch a non-diesel VW.

1. They eat fuel like crazy.
2. Don't hold up as well.

There have been a few times over the years where a part was faulty (I can specifically name the 05.5-06.5 years of the Jetta had a faulty dual mass flywheel. This was due to switching manufacturers. Those issues have since been fixed.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by DevilGirl

TDI or non-TDI? There is actually significant difference between the two. I will never touch a non-diesel VW.

1. They eat fuel like crazy.
2. Don't hold up as well.

There have been a few times over the years where a part was faulty (I can specifically name the 05.5-06.5 years of the Jetta had a faulty dual mass flywheel. This was due to switching manufacturers. Those issues have since been fixed.

Yes gas. I owned a 240D back when gas was $1 a gallon and diesel 79 cents. Diesels arent cost effective any more. Youll never get the money you spent extra for them back. SEE PRIUS.

[DevilGirl]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Yes gas. I owned a 240D back when gas was $1 a gallon and diesel 79 cents. Diesels arent cost effective any more. Youll never get the money you spent extra for them back. SEE PRIUS.

Desired torque + HP + fuel economy = diesel FTW

The only way a gas car becomes cost effective is to have it have less torque and HP. Whereas diesel sacrificies very little in terms of torque and HP to have the fuel economy.

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by bronsin

No hate here just the facts. VW makes a defect prone car. Once they made defective ignition modules that failed. There were so many of them they couldnt make new ignition modules fast enough to replace them all. (you have to wonder why they couldnt) Nothing could be adapted to fit. So some folks waited MONTHS with an undrivable car. NEVER NEVER NEVER wil I buy a VW.

as opposed to the yaris w/ the flammable sound deadening, the camry's w/ the recalled transmissions, and the matrix w/ its breaking drivers window and junk clutches

ya, vw sucks...

[SilverGlow]

Originally Posted by thebarber

as opposed to the yaris w/ the flammable sound deadening, the camry's w/ the recalled transmissions, and the matrix w/ its breaking drivers window and junk clutches

ya, vw sucks...

The problems you listed for Toyota cars is not even 1/100th of the problems found with VW's.

You are right....ya, VW sucks!!!

[bronsin]

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?

[127.0.0.1]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?

after 400,000 miles, add new prius batteries 4 grand. (on top of anything else mechanical they both share, tires and upkeep of systems)

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong Your math is correct and I agree with it, since I own a Yaris and not a Prius. But some may consider the comparison to be unfair, since the Yaris and the Prius are not really in the same category. Yaris probably qualifies as a sub-compact, while the Prius is a compact, more cargo space, more space for passengers as well, so I'd say the comparison is better balanced if you take a Corolla or at least a Scion xD...

The only thing I did not agree with was the "fraud" statement Otherwise you're right on the money.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by fmicle

The only thing I did not agree with was the "fraud" statement Otherwise you're right on the money.

Fraud is a strong word. Prius owners are so enamoured of their cars. I guess I should leave them to it!

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Heres my math:

Yaris $15,000
Prius $25,000

Driving a Yaris 100,000k miles @35 mpg burning gas @ $2.50 a gallon costs $7142
Driving a Prius 100k miles @45 mpg gas @ $2.50 costs $5555

Thats saves >$2000. So you STILL have $8000 in outlay to recover. That wont happen till 400,000 MORE miles. (@$2.50 a gallon)

Am I wrong?

One thing people need to get straight is not comparing the Prius and Yaris as if they are just different apples.

You can not argue an economic comparison pertaining to fuel cost benefits between the two. Makes no sense because the Prius is in an entirely different class.

Take a look at the Prius' interior below. Does it look like the simple plastic interior of the Yaris? Um, no. It is closer to a luxury car. That costs money.

Plus, the Prius has a much more premium driving feel.

It's like asking why someone would pay extra for an MB S-Class when you can just get an E-Class which will still get you to your destination.

[Homeboy]

Being # 1 as car manufacturor is nice, but I still think it's more important that you obtain a high customer satisfaction, because in the end, satisfied customers will by another Toyota.

Last year, FY2008, when the financial figures were pretty good for Toyota, we were aiming for that # 1 position on the market and we were striving to beat GM and keep that position.

But this year, when everyone is suffering from the economic crisis, Toyota is no longer interested in that number 1 position of car manufacturing. Our core business is producing cars, the mission is to be # 1 in customer satisfaction. Production has been schaled down in Toyota plants all over the world, in order to save costs. (e.g. Yaris production in Valencienne was at certain level only 50% compaired to FY2008).

Each car, each brand has its pro's and contra's. It's all about each individual's perception. And everyone has experienced some bad issues with his/her car(s), but in the end you're happy driving in it.

[BuildCode]

Originally Posted by Homeboy

Being # 1 as car manufacturor is nice, but I still think it's more important that you obtain a high customer satisfaction, because in the end, satisfied customers will by another Toyota.

Last year, FY2008, when the financial figures were pretty good for Toyota, we were aiming for that # 1 position on the market and we were striving to beat GM and keep that position.

But this year, when everyone is suffering from the economic crisis, Toyota is no longer interested in that number 1 position of car manufacturing. Our core business is producing cars, the mission is to be # 1 in customer satisfaction. Production has been schaled down in Toyota plants all over the world, in order to save costs. (e.g. Yaris production in Valencienne was at certain level only 50% compaired to FY2008).

Each car, each brand has its pro's and contra's. It's all about each individual's perception. And everyone has experienced some bad issues with his/her car(s), but in the end you're happy driving in it.

Regarding "we" and "our" - do you work for Toyota or just feel really close to them?