manual vs. automatic

[Billiam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=XcWd...eature=channel

[Yaris Hilton]

Originally Posted by sickpuppy1

One thing I do notice is this car like Quick Trip gas much better than Philips 66. I mean a noticeable difference in mileage. 2-3 mpg! I had to gas up at Phillips in town this weekend and the gauge is 2 bars down at 120 miles which is not cool and I had one tank at 35mpg which was also Phillips. My Civic was just the opposite, it did better on Phillips than QT. Weird stuff......

What I see here is stations of various brands getting their tanks filled by trucks from a regional jobber with a name like Appalachian Petroleum. I suspect all of the gasoline comes from the same source at the same pipeline terminal, and any differences there may be come from blending their proprietary detergent packages and ethanol en route in the truck. However, I've read on some sites that people who carry around graduated test tubes to measure ethanol content by adding a measured amount of water and then viewing the alcohol-water mixture that settles out say that it's not uncommon to see ethanol percentages well above the supposed maximum of 10%, often approaching 20%. Gas vendors have a motivation to do this as they get a Federal subsidy of I think 60¢ per gallon of ethanol they sell, and gas consumption has been down to about 2006 levels recently, making it hard to dispose of all the fuel ethanol that's produced with a blending limit of 10%. That's the driving force behind the move to increase the ethanol to 15%, which will likely happen soon. Many of us are already burning that without knowing it. It does reduce mileage as the ethanol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline hydrocarbons.

Another reason mileage may go down is if you get gas of lower octane and the knock sensor tells the ECU to retard the ignition timing. That reduces efficiency.

Anybody who's interested in acquiring a fuel alcohol test kit should browse go-kart racing sites.

[KrazyDawg]

Originally Posted by sickpuppy1

Interesting, because my 2010 sedan does 38+ normally, 75 highway 25% city. I have got one tank at 40 and one at 41.4 mpg. Have my tires at 40 and I do 70-75 on the way to and from work. Heck, last weekend I went to a concert in St Louis and was running late. Did avg 80mph with the AC on and still did 38.8 for the trip there, around town driving while there and back to Columbia, Mo before I filled up. The rest of the trip home was around 75 and all week to and from work and that was my 41.4 tank. One thing I do notice is this car like Quick Trip gas much better than Philips 66. I mean a noticeable difference in mileage. 2-3 mpg! I had to gas up at Phillips in town this weekend and the gauge is 2 bars down at 120 miles which is not cool and I had one tank at 35mpg which was also Phillips. My Civic was just the opposite, it did better on Phillips than QT. Weird stuff......

I find it strange too since my previous car was a 95 Civic rated at 26 MPG. I achieved 33 MPG on average but was able to hit the 35 range on occasion and a few were in the 40s. On the other hand, my tires were one size up from the stock size, so my real MPG was probably lower.

[Yaris Hilton]

Originally Posted by KrazyDawg

On the other hand, my tires were one size up from the stock size, so my real MPG was probably lower.

That would make your actual, corrected mileage a bit higher.

[sickpuppy1]

That makes sense, but QT has big labels on all the pumps stating the "up to 10% ethanol" so I dont think its that, not sure, but I also dont argue with success,lol. They are real good about jumping into any gas war too so the prices are as low or lower most of the time.

[Yaris Hilton]

So does everyone else have those "up to 10% ethanol" labels.

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

So does everyone else have those "up to 10% ethanol" labels.

Federally mandated, as far as I know up here, and I believe you folks down south aren't too far behind us...



The main benefit to E10 is that it makes injector cleaners a thing of the past (they might even damage the injectors if they're already clean! )

Main drawback, is of course, the slightly lower gas mileage.


Depending on how many cold starts I'm doing, I'm averaging 35-36 MPG in the city, 40'ish MPG on pure highway (4dr. LB auto). Lately I've been doing these two mile jaunts to work, shut it down for a few days, come back from work, two mile jaunt, etc. I'm looking at the gas-gauge and I know the MPG is gonna be hurtin'. On the flipside, I'm down to half a tank, but my last fill-up was on July 9th.

[STC]

Originally Posted by firemachine69

Federally mandated, as far as I know up here, and I believe you folks down south aren't too far behind us...



The main benefit to E10 is that it makes injector cleaners a thing of the past (they might even damage the injectors if they're already clean! )

Main drawback, is of course, the slightly lower gas mileage.


Depending on how many cold starts I'm doing, I'm averaging 35-36 MPG in the city, 40'ish MPG on pure highway (4dr. LB auto). Lately I've been doing these two mile jaunts to work, shut it down for a few days, come back from work, two mile jaunt, etc. I'm looking at the gas-gauge and I know the MPG is gonna be hurtin'. On the flipside, I'm down to half a tank, but my last fill-up was on July 9th.

Ethanol is also known for condensation. Older vehicles and carburator vehicles have a rough time. The shelf life of ethanol is poor compared to MTBE.

Cheers!

[Fastskiguy]

Doesn't it take the same amount of energy to accelerate the car from 0 to 60 or whatever no matter how fast or slow that acceleration happens? And aren't motors a little more efficient in the rpm range where the torque is highest? And finally, isn't your top efficiency at the lowest speed where you can be in your highest gear? So....wouldn't relatively quick acceleration up to 40mph or wherever you drop into 4th or 5th (depending) be the best? I've heard 3/4 ths of the throttle mentioned before.

What's your take on this?

Joe

[jhsouders]

Originally Posted by sickpuppy1

That makes sense, but QT has big labels on all the pumps stating the "up to 10% ethanol" so I dont think its that, not sure, but I also dont argue with success,lol. They are real good about jumping into any gas war too so the prices are as low or lower most of the time.

Seeing as this came up, as you know ethanol reduces fuel efficiency, so up to 10% ethanol can hurt your mileage by around 10%.

What if you could get the same gas, but not get the crappy ethanol?

OH wait!! You can! lol Check out this site....
The stations that sell straight gas are starting to pop up around the country again, and i cant wait to see what it does to my mpg's!

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

[Yaris Hilton]

Originally Posted by jhsouders

Seeing as this came up, as you know ethanol reduces fuel efficiency, so up to 10% ethanol can hurt your mileage by around 10%.

No, it doesn't equate to that at all. E10 gasoline has about 3.4% less energy per gallon than "pure" gasoline. That's about how much your mileage will drop.

"Pure" gasoline hasn't been around for a lot longer than the ~4 years since E10 became the standard. Before that, most gasoline sold in the U.S. had ~15% methyl t-butyl ether (MTBE) in it. There are a number of other oxygenates that were used, like TAME (t-amyl methyl ether), diisopropyl ether, isopropyl alcohol, t-butyl alcohol, methanol, etc. The market for them has really been hit hard by the mandates pushed through by the ethanol lobby. If you get the raw gasoline pumped through the pipelines before it's had the oxygenates added, you'll get something that's about 2-4 octane numbers lower than the ethanol blended stuff. That will make your engine retard its spark timing and run less efficiently.

There's a lot to criticize about growing corn to make motor fuel out of. But the "true believers" in the harmful effects of fuel ethanol are pretty much deluded.

[STC]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

No, it doesn't equate to that at all. E10 gasoline has about 3.4% less energy per gallon than "pure" gasoline. That's about how much your mileage will drop.

"Pure" gasoline hasn't been around for a lot longer than the ~4 years since E10 became the standard. Before that, most gasoline sold in the U.S. had ~15% methyl t-butyl ether (MTBE) in it. There are a number of other oxygenates that were used, like TAME (t-amyl methyl ether), diisopropyl ether, isopropyl alcohol, t-butyl alcohol, methanol, etc. The market for them has really been hit hard by the mandates pushed through by the ethanol lobby. If you get the raw gasoline pumped through the pipelines before it's had the oxygenates added, you'll get something that's about 2-4 octane numbers lower than the ethanol blended stuff. That will make your engine retard its spark timing and run less efficiently.

There's a lot to criticize about growing corn to make motor fuel out of. But the "true believers" in the harmful effects of fuel ethanol are pretty much deluded.

Yes... pure gas is called RBOB Gasoline. It is oxygenated gas that uses different additives than ethanol. This is only what I use. Two mom/pop gas stations and one premium Shell station that sell this non-ethanol gas are left in my area. Only difference is when you buy Shell gas you get their proprietary detergents that they say helps clean your engine... 'Premium pure gas'.

From changing over to this gas there has been around 3-5% increase in my MPG's.

Cheers!

[sickpuppy1]

Most of them, I believe, I know the one I filled up this weekend did. Ive always heard ethanol would hurt mileage, and maybe ,as you all have said, there are other contributing factors.

[Hershey]

We've been averaging 39 miles for both automatic YARIS as of lately . The warmer the weather the better the mileage . Tires set at 35 > 36 p.s.i..

[Hershey]

must be nice .

[Steve L.]

I average 35 MPG with an automatic.

[brg88tx]

i've gone through 4 tanks now in my new (to me) 07 sedan with automatic transmission. my average so far is 38.43 mpg.

[KrazyDawg]

Originally Posted by brg88tx

i've gone through 4 tanks now in my new (to me) 07 sedan with automatic transmission. my average so far is 38.43 mpg.

TX has some ethanol-free gas stations to help you boost your MPG higher. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX