I NEED Boost... Opinions puh-lease

[cdydjded]

www.car-part.com is a gold mine!

[Freedan]

350 for an engine!? Wow.

Might have to visit the local junkyard and find an engine that I can tinker with if it's that cheap.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Build update...

Been having problems getting the car to run properly with the FIC hooked up after I wired up the cam and crank wires. Turns out I had to drop the mago- wires on each, then just TAP C20-121 with both magi- wires. Why I had to do this when others didn't... I dunno.

Anyways, I first threw in a map pimp my yaris gave me just to see if my AFR would respond correctly, and possibly use as a base map for tuning. For whatever reason, nothing happened. Watching my wideband, the AFR continues to hold around 14.7 with no notable changes. I drove around a bit and pushed the engine to make sure. I'm going to do some logging and see if I can figure it out.

Was wondering what injector response time I should be running. Brian, Carlos, if you could chime in that'd be great.

[pimp my yaris]

Your thinking is spot on. But you can do this with the maf. clamp when in the boost. OK first, when in closed loop [ie: normal driving] Your AFR will always be 14.5 to 15:1. This is actually good as it maintains low emmisions and good gas mileage. What we want is to clamp the MAF. at the correct voltage so when in the boost the computer will stop adding fuel and the FIC takes over. I still need to get this MAF max voltage on a normally aspirated Yaris. Also the most important AFR reading U need is when under heavy exceleration [IE: foot to the floor]. This is when Im trying to get that 12:1 zone AFR. The factory ECU flips to open loop at around 80% load or higher. Under that U should see 14.5 to 15:1 on the wideband. Their is no point to make the FIC control fueling all the time unless we are road racing or only driving a track car. I have already altered the map a little to help keep fuel trims more inline. What is your AFR when wide open and under boost. I know its difficult to answer but it should not go leaner then 13:1. Also in the map I gave you I clamped the map at 3.1 volts when in the boost and at above 3800rpm, if I remember correctly. Its still a work in progress for me too. I am happy I dont have any excessive rich or lean trouble codes.

[1.5ty]

Your spot on with everything but way are you looking for a a/f of 12.1 I know how to use aem standalone but not fic and when I tune with that with a boosted car max power falls around 11.2-11.5 a/f

[pimp my yaris]

This is the first car I have worked on tuning. The factory (non boosted) open loop AFR was 12:1 to 12.5 to 1. I just tryed to keep it in that range. I dont have a dyno. Everyone here seems to have a different opinion on the best AFR range to run.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Ok good I was wondering how you were running something other than 14.7 under closed loop but you're not. I took your map and made a couple changes according to where my car enters boost, and I also moved the MAF clamp to a lower RPM and changed it to 2.9 (my max value out of boost approximately).

The problem I was having yesterday was that I was entering boost and was still stuck around a 14.7 AFR. Even by 5 PSI I wasn't getting any richer. I'm not sure why... I'll watch closed/open loop more closely today and see where it switches. I may have actually been using a map yesterday that didn't have a MAF clamp... can't remember. That could be the issue.

AFRs confuse the hell out of me because there's a lot of conflicting information online... I was under the impression I needed an 11.5ish AFR at all times on an FI engine, but that's only really needed during boosting I reckon?

[1.5ty]

Open loop and close loop it controlled by temp when you start the car in the morning when it's cold that's what they call open loop after it's warm and that's what they call closed loop

[1.5ty]

To get full boosted it's all about the turbo you have and your setup

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Originally Posted by 1.5ty

To get full boosted it's all about the turbo you have and your setup

Agreed, and by 7 PSI of boost my car still maintains closed loop. I know this because I have a scan gauge.

I need more information on this, because it's going to ultimately determine how I go about tuning.

EDIT: And allow me to clarify, I understand what the two are. But I'm told that modern cars enter open loop under heavy acceleration, and this is where I need to tune with the FIC, but I've yet to see it happen.

[Bluevitz-rs]

It's simply, in one situation the ecu is using pre-determained values to operate the engine and ignores the sensors. The other it's using the sensor readings.

[1.5ty]

There is two ways to tune under wot on a dyno or street it really dosnt mater about open or closed loop

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Hopefully I'm not speaking too soon, but it would appear that my P0101 has gone away.

Ever since I cleaned the corrosion off my battery terminal, it's yet to come back. I also have completed enough driving cycles to determine whether or not there's any pending codes so...

[eTiMaGo]

From OBD datalogging that PK did some time ago, it seems the main condition for entering open loop is 75% signal from the throttle position sensor. So, put the pedal to the metal!

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

From OBD datalogging that PK did some time ago, it seems the main condition for entering open loop is 75% signal from the throttle position sensor. So, put the pedal to the metal!

THANK YOU.

This is the information I needed.

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

There is *potentially* such a trick, the other time the car is in open loop mode is when it's warming up. I've heard of tuners in Puerto Rico doing this, but you could put a resistor in line with the water temperature sensor to fool the ECU into thinking the car is *never* warm, hence it would stay in this warmup mode as long as you wanted. BUT, this is really a pretty dirty hack, I personally have no idea what other effects it may have...

I'm not feelin this lol. This is very iffy, and I feel like it would do more harm then good. Plus, fuel economy would blow if the car is constantly in open loop.

So I'm pretty baffled at this point though. What do I even need to tune? If I don't push the car hard enough to be entering open loop, then that's not really an issue... Afterall, the car runs fine at stoich.

[sleey0]

Or, maybe CTSCOTT can design something to trick the ECU to think it is always in openloop.

Then we would have 100" control of out cars/tuning withought standalone!

GREAT idea, now?

[eTiMaGo]

There is *potentially* such a trick, the other time the car is in open loop mode is when it's warming up. I've heard of tuners in Puerto Rico doing this, but you could put a resistor in line with the water temperature sensor to fool the ECU into thinking the car is *never* warm, hence it would stay in this warmup mode as long as you wanted. BUT, this is really a pretty dirty hack, I personally have no idea what other effects it may have...

[sleey0]

^^

Send this to ctscot and lets here his answer!!
Can't wait!

Then the car will REALLY be tunable w00t w00t!