I NEED Boost... Opinions puh-lease - Page 18 - Toyota Yaris Forums

Focus_Sh1ft · 10-29-2010, 04:31 PM

Yes Garm.

My only question is why didn't someone point this out sooner? This seems like a huge improvement. Even that figure shows a stupid amount of additional power being made.

Gonna look into some electronic ones. Any suggestions?

Bluevitz-rs · 10-29-2010, 05:53 PM

AEM

Sold at MI too!

PETERPOOP · 10-29-2010, 10:52 PM

Yes Garm, I mentioned you! My guru. lol. Bring those zage kits in! Let's do this

cali yaris · 10-30-2010, 01:00 AM

haha "Guru", I just learned from other people, I think we all do.

Focus, no one ever asked a question about boost controllers before.

"the truth is out there" -- if you know how to Google.

Focus_Sh1ft · 10-30-2010, 08:40 PM

I have a bit of a conundrum...

My car is stuck in open loop all of the sudden. I have no idea why it is, but now I can't boost because it goes LEAN. Anyone have any ideas why it suddenly decided to stay in open loop? My thought is it has something to do with driving cycles and the ECU seeing boost, as this is the longest I've driven without pulling terminals off the battery. I'm sure I could probably do just that and it would reset, but this is certainly a curious case. No CELs either, and my turbo timer is getting feedback from the AFR sensor still.

Focus_Sh1ft · 10-31-2010, 12:28 PM

Ok this situation is baffling, but incredibly awesome. My car is still doing the same thing. I pulled the AFR plug just to make sure the ECU throws a CEL, and it does. So... Something is happening that's forcing the car into open loop without any CELs! This is an optimal situation, and I wish I could figure out why it's happening for future reference. I have no idea where to even begin looking though.

I'm going to just tune the car instead of resetting the battery. If it swaps back to closed loop at some point - no biggie.

EDIT: As soon as I plugged my FIC back in and started the car, the issue resolved itself. I'm still clueless as to what I just witnessed, but I would love to find out. There must have been some criteria the engine failed to meet to throw itself into closed loop. The catch would seem that whatever it is doesn't cause a code though...

Oh and also - I was reading the service manual and noticed the AFR sensor heater operates between .9 and 10 Amps. A code is thrown if the current drops below .8A. Could it be possible to greatly limit the current that reaches the heater? My thought is that maybe, just maybe, we could limit its performance enough to prevent the AFR sensor from functioning correctly, thus putting the car in open loop.

Focus_Sh1ft · 11-02-2010, 07:08 PM

I'm assuming no one understands what the hell I've been talking about lol.

Anyways, there must be something wrong with my AFR sensor. Started the car up today, and it did the open loop thing. It started open, warmed up, went closed, then around 115F water temp it opened again.

Pulled my FIC bypass plug, put it back in, problem solved. Drove to class and got P2238 when I was almost there. The car went open loop, I cleared the code, and back to closed. On the way home, no code but it just suddenly got stuck in open loop again. The whole thing is so strange, but I can't be bothered with crap like this.

I've pulled my AFR sensor plug and am going to tune the car in open loop. I should have done this awhile ago, instead of messing around with the FIC. This is tried and true, and a CEL that doesn't cause limp isn't the end of the world.

pimp my yaris · 11-02-2010, 08:57 PM

Sounds very similar to my problems. My car stayed in closed loop but my factory O2 sensor was going wacky. While driving it was OK but when hot at idle it was very slow to respond. Sometimes it would go so lean it would dye out. I think the location of the o2 had something to do with it. Mabe if it was located before the turbo it would be OK. I have removed the o2 sensor and tuned in open loop. Much better now. Still need some bigger squirters though.

cali yaris · 11-04-2010, 12:28 AM

^ Excellent! I got five more Zage kits in today.

Freedan · 11-04-2010, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

^ Excellent! I got five more Zage kits in today.

Bluevitz-rs · 11-04-2010, 02:08 PM

^ so it isn't closing tight enough, right?

PETERPOOP · 11-04-2010, 10:23 PM

I read somewhere that its the air recirculating and pushing the turbo blades backwards. someone was saying that it isn't THAT bad on a small amount of boost?

pimp my yaris · 11-07-2010, 10:12 PM

I think peterpoop is right. The flutter sound is compressor surge [air going back through turbo blades]. IE: the bov may be a little tight. Mine was set to loose and my engine kept dying out because it was leaking out to much metered air and I went way rich. I tightened up the spring and now I get some flutter before I get the air rush sound when it opens. But now it almost never dyes out. I dont think a little flutter will hurt as long as when your on the gas hard you hear it open when you let off. Its hard to imagine the whole automatic trans. situation.

Focus_Sh1ft · 11-12-2010, 12:07 PM

I've been playing around with my manual boost controller the last few days and haven't seen any noticeable improvement in spooling unfortunately, but I'll keep at it.

Was wondering about this though.... If my PCV hose has a kink in it, that would cause blow-by and oil in the intake, right? I'm thinking that's the reason I found oil in the intercooler. Looks like it could also be related to my P0101 code.

cali yaris · 12-04-2010, 11:30 AM

^ sorry but I find this confusing. You said:

Quote:

For example, the first point the duty cycle maxes is at 7 psi @ 5000 RPMs.

which is nowhere near redline, and nowhere near 10psi. then you said:

Quote:

This means larger injectors aren't needed for low boost applications (8-9 psi) unless you're redlining the car all the time.

can you clarify please?

Focus_Sh1ft · 12-04-2010, 09:03 PM

Sorry I'm just so used to looking at the FIC fuel maps when I'm sure many others haven't even seen what they look like. I'll break this down as much as possible and assume nothing.

Firstly, it's widely accepted that 11.5 is a good AFR for boost conditions. In order to maintain that ratio, the duty cycle (time the injectors are held ON), must be increased as engine load and RPMs increase. Simple concept - the harder the engine works, the more air is needed, and thus the more fuel is needed. Varying load/ RPM combos need different values. For example, 2 psi of boost @ 5000 RPMs is NOT going to need the same duty cycle for 2 psi of boost @ 1200 RPMs.

That's why the duty cycle maxes at different RPMs for each pound of boost (starting at 7). In this case you can say the fuel needed to maintain 11.5 at 7 psi @ 5000 RPMs is close to the fuel needed at 10 psi @ 3500 RPMs - the maximum duty cycle (100%).

Here's a couple of examples of duty cycle maxing to show the linear trend it follows (approximately):

6 psi @ about redline
7 psi @ 5000 RPMs
8 psi @ 4400 RPMs
9 psi @ 4000 RPMs
10 psi @ 3500 RPMs
11 psi @ 3200 RPMs

The last three are theoretical, but should be pretty accurate.

Hopefully that'll clear it up a bit. I'm struggling to explain this right now

pimp my yaris · 12-06-2010, 09:14 PM

Me too ^

Focus_Sh1ft · 04-04-2012, 03:53 PM

Hey all

Been awhile since I updated. As some of you may be aware I've had an ongoing "boost leak" problem pretty much since I've finished the install. This week I finally got around to running some boost leak tests and found a whopping 10 leaks. Some of them were pretty significant. Needless to say the car idles substantially better now. Unfortunately... My leak problem remains.

I'm baffled and really need some help. What I'd like to think this means is that the exhaust is somehow the culprit... Whenever I get on the throttle I hear a ton of air escaping. I've combed the damn thing over so many times and found no noticeable air leaks that would hurt spooling. I'm beginning to wonder if my 2.25" crush bent catback is just not providing enough breathing and air is being forced out of whatever little crack it can find...

Anyone have any ideas, things to try, how to accurately test for exhaust leaks etc? I'm tired of being stuck at 5 psi.

10-30-2010, 01:00 AM	#4
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,857	haha "Guru", I just learned from other people, I think we all do. Focus, no one ever asked a question about boost controllers before. "the truth is out there" -- if you know how to Google. __________________ Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.

10-31-2010, 12:28 PM	#6
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	Ok this situation is baffling, but incredibly awesome. My car is still doing the same thing. I pulled the AFR plug just to make sure the ECU throws a CEL, and it does. So... Something is happening that's forcing the car into open loop without any CELs! This is an optimal situation, and I wish I could figure out why it's happening for future reference. I have no idea where to even begin looking though. I'm going to just tune the car instead of resetting the battery. If it swaps back to closed loop at some point - no biggie. EDIT: As soon as I plugged my FIC back in and started the car, the issue resolved itself. I'm still clueless as to what I just witnessed, but I would love to find out. There must have been some criteria the engine failed to meet to throw itself into closed loop. The catch would seem that whatever it is doesn't cause a code though... Oh and also - I was reading the service manual and noticed the AFR sensor heater operates between .9 and 10 Amps. A code is thrown if the current drops below .8A. Could it be possible to greatly limit the current that reaches the heater? My thought is that maybe, just maybe, we could limit its performance enough to prevent the AFR sensor from functioning correctly, thus putting the car in open loop. Last edited by Focus_Sh1ft; 10-31-2010 at 11:30 PM.

11-04-2010, 12:28 AM	#9
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,857	^ Excellent! I got five more Zage kits in today. __________________ Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.

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10-29-2010, 04:31 PM	#1
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	Yes Garm. My only question is why didn't someone point this out sooner? This seems like a huge improvement. Even that figure shows a stupid amount of additional power being made. Gonna look into some electronic ones. Any suggestions?

10-29-2010, 05:53 PM	#2
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	AEM Sold at MI too!

10-29-2010, 10:52 PM	#3
PETERPOOP View User's Garage Drives: 08 white liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,674	Yes Garm, I mentioned you! My guru. lol. Bring those zage kits in! Let's do this

10-30-2010, 08:40 PM	#5
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	I have a bit of a conundrum... My car is stuck in open loop all of the sudden. I have no idea why it is, but now I can't boost because it goes LEAN. Anyone have any ideas why it suddenly decided to stay in open loop? My thought is it has something to do with driving cycles and the ECU seeing boost, as this is the longest I've driven without pulling terminals off the battery. I'm sure I could probably do just that and it would reset, but this is certainly a curious case. No CELs either, and my turbo timer is getting feedback from the AFR sensor still.

11-02-2010, 07:08 PM	#7
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	I'm assuming no one understands what the hell I've been talking about lol. Anyways, there must be something wrong with my AFR sensor. Started the car up today, and it did the open loop thing. It started open, warmed up, went closed, then around 115F water temp it opened again. Pulled my FIC bypass plug, put it back in, problem solved. Drove to class and got P2238 when I was almost there. The car went open loop, I cleared the code, and back to closed. On the way home, no code but it just suddenly got stuck in open loop again. The whole thing is so strange, but I can't be bothered with crap like this. I've pulled my AFR sensor plug and am going to tune the car in open loop. I should have done this awhile ago, instead of messing around with the FIC. This is tried and true, and a CEL that doesn't cause limp isn't the end of the world.

11-02-2010, 08:57 PM	#8
pimp my yaris C'est la vie Drives: 2009 2 door hatchback Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: chicago Posts: 482	Sounds very similar to my problems. My car stayed in closed loop but my factory O2 sensor was going wacky. While driving it was OK but when hot at idle it was very slow to respond. Sometimes it would go so lean it would dye out. I think the location of the o2 had something to do with it. Mabe if it was located before the turbo it would be OK. I have removed the o2 sensor and tuned in open loop. Much better now. Still need some bigger squirters though.

11-04-2010, 02:08 PM	#11
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	^ so it isn't closing tight enough, right?

11-04-2010, 10:23 PM	#12
PETERPOOP View User's Garage Drives: 08 white liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,674	I read somewhere that its the air recirculating and pushing the turbo blades backwards. someone was saying that it isn't THAT bad on a small amount of boost?

11-07-2010, 10:12 PM	#13
pimp my yaris C'est la vie Drives: 2009 2 door hatchback Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: chicago Posts: 482	I think peterpoop is right. The flutter sound is compressor surge [air going back through turbo blades]. IE: the bov may be a little tight. Mine was set to loose and my engine kept dying out because it was leaking out to much metered air and I went way rich. I tightened up the spring and now I get some flutter before I get the air rush sound when it opens. But now it almost never dyes out. I dont think a little flutter will hurt as long as when your on the gas hard you hear it open when you let off. Its hard to imagine the whole automatic trans. situation.

11-12-2010, 12:07 PM	#14
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	I've been playing around with my manual boost controller the last few days and haven't seen any noticeable improvement in spooling unfortunately, but I'll keep at it. Was wondering about this though.... If my PCV hose has a kink in it, that would cause blow-by and oil in the intake, right? I'm thinking that's the reason I found oil in the intercooler. Looks like it could also be related to my P0101 code.

12-04-2010, 09:03 PM	#16
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	Sorry I'm just so used to looking at the FIC fuel maps when I'm sure many others haven't even seen what they look like. I'll break this down as much as possible and assume nothing. Firstly, it's widely accepted that 11.5 is a good AFR for boost conditions. In order to maintain that ratio, the duty cycle (time the injectors are held ON), must be increased as engine load and RPMs increase. Simple concept - the harder the engine works, the more air is needed, and thus the more fuel is needed. Varying load/ RPM combos need different values. For example, 2 psi of boost @ 5000 RPMs is NOT going to need the same duty cycle for 2 psi of boost @ 1200 RPMs. That's why the duty cycle maxes at different RPMs for each pound of boost (starting at 7). In this case you can say the fuel needed to maintain 11.5 at 7 psi @ 5000 RPMs is close to the fuel needed at 10 psi @ 3500 RPMs - the maximum duty cycle (100%). Here's a couple of examples of duty cycle maxing to show the linear trend it follows (approximately): 6 psi @ about redline 7 psi @ 5000 RPMs 8 psi @ 4400 RPMs 9 psi @ 4000 RPMs 10 psi @ 3500 RPMs 11 psi @ 3200 RPMs The last three are theoretical, but should be pretty accurate. Hopefully that'll clear it up a bit. I'm struggling to explain this right now

12-06-2010, 09:14 PM	#17
pimp my yaris C'est la vie Drives: 2009 2 door hatchback Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: chicago Posts: 482	Me too ^

04-04-2012, 03:53 PM	#18
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	Hey all Been awhile since I updated. As some of you may be aware I've had an ongoing "boost leak" problem pretty much since I've finished the install. This week I finally got around to running some boost leak tests and found a whopping 10 leaks. Some of them were pretty significant. Needless to say the car idles substantially better now. Unfortunately... My leak problem remains. I'm baffled and really need some help. What I'd like to think this means is that the exhaust is somehow the culprit... Whenever I get on the throttle I hear a ton of air escaping. I've combed the damn thing over so many times and found no noticeable air leaks that would hurt spooling. I'm beginning to wonder if my 2.25" crush bent catback is just not providing enough breathing and air is being forced out of whatever little crack it can find... Anyone have any ideas, things to try, how to accurately test for exhaust leaks etc? I'm tired of being stuck at 5 psi.