Scion XB 1NZ-FE Turbo build - Page 15 - Toyota Yaris Forums

xnamerxx · 01-14-2011, 11:45 PM

No one here is hating on him they are all pointing out a giant problem with his afr.

Ever wonder why evos, sti, cobras, vettes, vw's, or any other car that has a forced induction engine runs at afrs around 12:1 or less its not because there trying to sap power from the motor its because running any leaner results in detonation/pre-ignition and combustion temperatures that are to high.

Hey what do you know on a STI the afr is less than 15:1 what a shocker and hey its running meth what do you know.

Parmas · 01-15-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

No one here is hating on him they are all pointing out a giant problem with his afr.

Ever wonder why evos, sti, cobras, vettes, vw's, or any other car that has a forced induction engine runs at afrs around 12:1 or less its not because there trying to sap power from the motor its because running any leaner results in detonation/pre-ignition and combustion temperatures that are to high.

Hey what do you know on a STI the afr is less than 15:1 what a shocker and hey its running meth what do you know.

I don't know but that dyno is sweet still on the AFR which btw that is a proper tune for me..... Stoich off boost and low 12 on boost. I am really curious I can be able to make a tune map like this myself!

cali yaris · 01-15-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Every forum is full of haters and people who just sound off

^ Are you including me in that? I asked a legitimate tuning question, and congratulated him on his numbers. And the question remains unanswered.

Blown_xa · 01-16-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

^ Are you including me in that? I asked a legitimate tuning question, and congratulated him on his numbers. And the question remains unanswered.

Garm, like said already ...you are looking at the torque curve. The power hardly drops off. As far as afr's, im not gonna speculate. We have run 13.0 on our race car for good numbers on the dyno, it liked running lean. But after the insane power pulls were done we immediately corrected the afr's for racing trim. It may very well be the same in his case. Only his tuner can answer that question about the afr's on that particular pull, but what everyone failed to notice, is the pull ended early around 6000rpm . So my guess is the tuner let off knowing. The car may have made the best power on that pull so that is why it was posted. Only other reason for pull showing an end at 6000rpm would be because rpm's were based off roadspeed and the graph got trunkcated do to tire expansion.

cali yaris · 01-16-2011, 11:46 AM

^ I have a ported head with stock cams, so I don't think that's it.

cdydjded · 01-16-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

^ I have a ported head with stock cams, so I don't think that's it.

Yes you do & it was ported by someone else. A ported head by one guy is not he same as a ported head by another. Completly uncomparable.

cali yaris · 01-16-2011, 03:25 PM

1. You didn't answer if you were including me in the word "haters" that you used.

2. Yes, I was looking at the torque curve. Regardless of which curve you'd like to discuss, the motor peaks very early; I asked why. I disagree with you that "The power hardly drops off." It's done at 5200. It drops off enough that the tuner stopped the pull early, as you noticed.

3. You can "not speculate" on the AFR's all you want -- but the dyno got posted and we get to discuss it, right? That looks too lean to me. (I could always be wrong, but I don't think I am on that detail).

Quote:

Only his tuner can answer that question about the afr's on that particular pull,

Right. And if it were my car, I'd be asking that question before I drove away with it tuned like that.

cali yaris · 01-16-2011, 08:26 PM

OK, I can't argue because I don't know enough, I'll admit that. Maybe the porting job alone gave him a power curve where horsepower is done by 5200. Were there some pics posted of the head? I can't remember.

cdydjded · 01-16-2011, 09:52 PM

Pics alone cannot give you any information. A flow chart is needed.

xnamerxx · 01-17-2011, 12:55 PM

Since you seem to understand this subject so much explain why a stock yaris is able to keep making power past 5200 rpm's and this dudes motor is out of steam at 5200 rpm's.

All I want is a explanation as to why that would be the case.

cdydjded · 01-17-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

Since you seem to understand this subject so much explain why a stock yaris is able to keep making power past 5200 rpm's and this dudes motor is out of steam at 5200 rpm's.

All I want is a explanation as to why that would be the case.

Is you question towards me?

xnamerxx · 01-17-2011, 01:10 PM

Yes, I want a explanation as to why a very modded car is plateauing in power at 5200 rpms where as a stock yaris would not be doing that if it really was a problem with heads and cams.

cdydjded · 01-17-2011, 01:20 PM

Well first of all it why would you think that you could compare NA vs Boosted on a dyno sheet? HP comes in very differently between the 2. Also he has an aftermarket intake manifold & a ported head with stock cams. Im not going to speculate on why his dyno looks the way it does. I congratulate him on his efforts.

Nexus1155 · 01-17-2011, 02:03 PM

Unless that stuff was hurting the flow or restricting it, wouldn't it promote power in the higher revs since you are making it easier for the motor to breathe? especially when still using stock cams?

xnamerxx · 01-17-2011, 02:08 PM

Seeing as his dyno looks like any other dyno with a maxed out turbo Im going to go out on a limb and say he maxed his turbo out.

The fact that just because your car has air being forced into it doesn't mean your dyno curves will looks drastically different. All your doing is compressing air in a given space. The engine will still consume the air as it would in N/A form. If you look at any car be it PD induction or turbo the peak power is still the same as it would be N/A as long as the boost levels are held until the power adder is maxed out on its induction.

Im not going to sit here and congratulate a guy on making power when its obvious to anyone who knows anything about engine tuning when there are clear problems. In the end do I care if this guy blows his motor no but when people believe his setup is normal and good then more people will continue on the wrong path of how to setup a motor adding more noise for people who are looking to get the right info.

cdydjded · 01-17-2011, 05:31 PM

xnamerxx : Seeing as his dyno looks like any other dyno with a maxed out turbo Im going to go out on a limb and say he maxed his turbo out.
I have to agree with you on that, Garrett claims max HP on that turbo to be 360HP
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...S_739548_1.htm

The fact that just because your car has air being forced into it doesn't mean your dyno curves will looks drastically different. All your doing is compressing air in a given space. The engine will still consume the air as it would in N/A form. If you look at any car be it PD induction or turbo the peak power is still the same as it would be N/A as long as the boost levels are held until the power adder is maxed out on its induction.
Id have to completely disagree on this. Manifold runner size, plenum size & what work is done will dramatically affect the power curve

Im not going to sit here and congratulate a guy on making power when its obvious to anyone who knows anything about engine tuning when there are clear problems. In the end do I care if this guy blows his motor no but when people believe his setup is normal and good then more people will continue on the wrong path of how to setup a motor adding more noise for people who are looking to get the right info

As for the above comment, this is the first time the car is dyno'd with the current combo. Iv never seen a car come out of the box with no issues. Im sure if he feels changes need to be made to correct the so called "lean issue" he will fix them.

cali yaris · 01-17-2011, 02:55 PM

It's xbgod's thread, to "share with the community" this build and the results. I've asked my questions, so I'm done for now. If the answers get posted, I think that will be valuable to all of us.

cdydjded · 01-17-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

It's xbgod's thread, to "share with the community" this build and the results. I've asked my questions, so I'm done for now. If the answers get posted, I think that will be valuable to all of us.

BTW, what are the questions you are waiting answers for? And who are you waiting for to answer them?

01-16-2011, 11:46 AM	#5
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,859	^ I have a ported head with stock cams, so I don't think that's it. __________________ Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.

01-16-2011, 08:26 PM	#8
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,859	OK, I can't argue because I don't know enough, I'll admit that. Maybe the porting job alone gave him a power curve where horsepower is done by 5200. Were there some pics posted of the head? I can't remember. __________________ Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.

01-17-2011, 02:55 PM	#17
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,859	It's xbgod's thread, to "share with the community" this build and the results. I've asked my questions, so I'm done for now. If the answers get posted, I think that will be valuable to all of us. __________________ Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Want to build costom turbo kit. Need advice from boosted guys!	pimp my yaris	Forced Induction Forum	639	09-28-2013 11:26 AM
FS: 2005 Scion xA RS2.0 Turbo	uberegg	Cars for Sale by private party	40	04-03-2010 11:45 AM
Scion xd turbo	PARIS	Yaris TS Talk	22	02-26-2010 08:08 AM
Chevy Aveo RS: Turbo + good looks = build it!	Thirty-Nine	Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions	22	01-12-2010 12:36 PM
Check out the new Scion iQ concept. In the States in 2011/2012	LA Yaris	California	9	10-23-2009 08:11 PM

01-14-2011, 11:45 PM	#1
xnamerxx 0-60 in slow Drives: light blue liftback Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: so cal Posts: 926	No one here is hating on him they are all pointing out a giant problem with his afr. Ever wonder why evos, sti, cobras, vettes, vw's, or any other car that has a forced induction engine runs at afrs around 12:1 or less its not because there trying to sap power from the motor its because running any leaner results in detonation/pre-ignition and combustion temperatures that are to high. Hey what do you know on a STI the afr is less than 15:1 what a shocker and hey its running meth what do you know.

01-16-2011, 09:52 PM	#9
cdydjded Drives: Yaris LB Turbo Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami FL Posts: 782	Pics alone cannot give you any information. A flow chart is needed.

01-17-2011, 12:55 PM	#10
xnamerxx 0-60 in slow Drives: light blue liftback Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: so cal Posts: 926	Since you seem to understand this subject so much explain why a stock yaris is able to keep making power past 5200 rpm's and this dudes motor is out of steam at 5200 rpm's. All I want is a explanation as to why that would be the case.

01-17-2011, 01:10 PM	#12
xnamerxx 0-60 in slow Drives: light blue liftback Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: so cal Posts: 926	Yes, I want a explanation as to why a very modded car is plateauing in power at 5200 rpms where as a stock yaris would not be doing that if it really was a problem with heads and cams.

01-17-2011, 01:20 PM	#13
cdydjded Drives: Yaris LB Turbo Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami FL Posts: 782	Well first of all it why would you think that you could compare NA vs Boosted on a dyno sheet? HP comes in very differently between the 2. Also he has an aftermarket intake manifold & a ported head with stock cams. Im not going to speculate on why his dyno looks the way it does. I congratulate him on his efforts.

01-17-2011, 02:03 PM	#14
Nexus1155 Bathroom + Laptop = <3 Drives: Audi Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dorchester Posts: 1,009	Unless that stuff was hurting the flow or restricting it, wouldn't it promote power in the higher revs since you are making it easier for the motor to breathe? especially when still using stock cams?

01-17-2011, 02:08 PM	#15
xnamerxx 0-60 in slow Drives: light blue liftback Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: so cal Posts: 926	Seeing as his dyno looks like any other dyno with a maxed out turbo Im going to go out on a limb and say he maxed his turbo out. The fact that just because your car has air being forced into it doesn't mean your dyno curves will looks drastically different. All your doing is compressing air in a given space. The engine will still consume the air as it would in N/A form. If you look at any car be it PD induction or turbo the peak power is still the same as it would be N/A as long as the boost levels are held until the power adder is maxed out on its induction. Im not going to sit here and congratulate a guy on making power when its obvious to anyone who knows anything about engine tuning when there are clear problems. In the end do I care if this guy blows his motor no but when people believe his setup is normal and good then more people will continue on the wrong path of how to setup a motor adding more noise for people who are looking to get the right info.

01-17-2011, 05:31 PM	#16
cdydjded Drives: Yaris LB Turbo Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami FL Posts: 782	xnamerxx : Seeing as his dyno looks like any other dyno with a maxed out turbo Im going to go out on a limb and say he maxed his turbo out. I have to agree with you on that, Garrett claims max HP on that turbo to be 360HP http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...S_739548_1.htm The fact that just because your car has air being forced into it doesn't mean your dyno curves will looks drastically different. All your doing is compressing air in a given space. The engine will still consume the air as it would in N/A form. If you look at any car be it PD induction or turbo the peak power is still the same as it would be N/A as long as the boost levels are held until the power adder is maxed out on its induction. Id have to completely disagree on this. Manifold runner size, plenum size & what work is done will dramatically affect the power curve Im not going to sit here and congratulate a guy on making power when its obvious to anyone who knows anything about engine tuning when there are clear problems. In the end do I care if this guy blows his motor no but when people believe his setup is normal and good then more people will continue on the wrong path of how to setup a motor adding more noise for people who are looking to get the right info As for the above comment, this is the first time the car is dyno'd with the current combo. Iv never seen a car come out of the box with no issues. Im sure if he feels changes need to be made to correct the so called "lean issue" he will fix them.