1NZ port & polish

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Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Wow, a lot to respond to.

About the AFR being wacky, it was taken through the tailpipe.

The next question would be when I dyno the car with the new test pipe this Sunday, should I get an accurate AFR reading due to the fact that the cats are being removed?

And about the shop... this is a local area shop involved in racing engines and they want to break into the subcompact market. They offered me a P&P to display a sticker. They said it would take four days. I told them I am very interested, but I would like to know what they suggest on a low displacement engine like the 1NZ. If they say "nothing different from a Ford V8" I'll be weary.

Theoretically, yea the AFR should be accurate. however, I rarely have seen a dyno tailpipe sniffer that is accurate. They are dropped, stepped on, dirty, and run in the worst possible conditions (super rich, super lean) etc. Just take it for what its worth.

It sounds like they aren't going to do anything radical with the head. Probably just some cleanup and smoothing if they think it is only going to take 4 days. Keep in mind car work is like construction work. 4 days equals 4 weeks. And that is if all the new gaskets are available from your local dealer. They may even use aftermarket gaskets to replace the OEM stuff, so be aware of that.

Ashley

[ChinoCharles]

Advice noted. Thanks.

Decision shortly.

[Galavoxx]

Does anyone know if bigger valves have ever been fitted to this head? Or if it might be possible? I have no idea what the inside of the head looks like on the 1NZ but larger valves can net more gains when used in conjunction with the P&P. Just a thought.

[Dragonacc]

Originally Posted by Galavoxx

Does anyone know if bigger valves have ever been fitted to this head? Or if it might be possible? I have no idea what the inside of the head looks like on the 1NZ but larger valves can net more gains when used in conjunction with the P&P. Just a thought.

Larger valves won't help unless you increase the redline or go FI. Bigger valves kill air velocity which hurts bottom end power.

[Galavoxx]

Originally Posted by Dragonacc

Larger valves won't help unless you increase the redline or go FI. Bigger valves kill air velocity which hurts bottom end power.

I don't entirely agree with that. OF course a higher redline is going to showcase the potential of larger valves. However, with a flow bench designed head and larger valves, the hp should be avilable everywhere, not just up high. I'm not saying that the 1NZ has the potential to make more power with just valves and a head job but the potential of a stock internal 1NZ engine with just head work has yet to be realized. Many head jobs (good ones) will bear the ideal combination of performance, reliability, and drivability. This is done by balancing all of the head elements such as matching valve size and shape to seat geometry to port configuration. Bottom line: a head alone on many cars can conservatively net horsepower gains of 5 – 10% (and occasionally even more) and this is stage 1 on stock internals. But you probably already know this. Of course we will also have to get into the electronics...

[Dragonacc]

Originally Posted by Galavoxx

I don't entirely agree with that. OF course a higher redline is going to showcase the potential of larger valves. However, with a flow bench designed head and larger valves, the hp should be avilable everywhere, not just up high. I'm not saying that the 1NZ has the potential to make more power with just valves and a head job but the potential of a stock internal 1NZ engine with just head work has yet to be realized. Many head jobs (good ones) will bear the ideal combination of performance, reliability, and drivability. This is done by balancing all of the head elements such as matching valve size and shape to seat geometry to port configuration. Bottom line: a head alone on many cars can conservatively net horsepower gains of 5 – 10% (and occasionally even more) and this is stage 1 on stock internals. But you probably already know this. Of course we will also have to get into the electronics...

It's true headwork and larger valves can gain power everywhere. But unless the stock valves are too small for the airflow requirements of the engine adding larger valves will hurt bottom end performance.

Now, I suppose the only way to really know if the valves are too small is to spend time with the heads on a flowbench and the car on a dyno.

[Black Yaris]

So what are the plans for TI for this week end..... I can't wait to hear/see that exaust... shit if I have time, and they have time, see if they can change my exaust up a bit... hit me up L8er

[joey1320]

a good, reputable shop should know how to clean a head for better flow-no matter what name is on the hood of the car. now if it's a small shop with not much knowledege, trying to get into a new market then i might be worry about it.

they should definitely bench flow it to see the before and after and you should be there to see the difference. you don't wanna get the car back together to figure out they messed up big. good luck!

[mikeukrainetz]

listening to all this amazes me, im really not used to the import engine build and the lengths people will go to for 5 - 10hp. what I am used to is gaining 60hp with an aftermarket set of heads for a small block. It seems like theres maybe one or two here who actually know whats involved in a P&P job. Its not one of those DIY on the weekend kind of things. Most people, even shops who arent familiar with certain types or model variations of heads can ruin a 1k set of heads by removing too much material. people also think they can just hog out material to the max and expect huge gains in flow. Ive seen heads so thin they literally cant hold water. Overheating winds up being a problem and cracking around valve stems. The only way I can see this being a justifiable expense is if the bottom end is built and your boosting. I wouldnt worry about valve size either.
Are you guys actually serious of doing this to this engine? If so go with the advice of a good shop with a flow bench.
Just because the heads flow better wont net you much without opening everything else up.

[Dragonacc]

Originally Posted by mikeukrainetz

lIts not one of those DIY on the weekend kind of things. Most people, even shops who arent familiar with certain types or model variations of heads can ruin a 1k set of heads by removing too much material.

Depends on the heads. I can port a set of E7 heads for a SBF and they'll make quite a bit more power than stock.

Import cars can cost a bunch to get power out of, but when done properly they make serious power. Just look at some of the 800 hp B series turbo engines out there.

[ChinoCharles]

Listen. You guys don't know Ohio.

Summit Racing... if I'm not mistaken, one of the largest domestic parts distributors in the country... and one of the largest distributors overall. They have everything. Their warehouse is HUGE. you can walk in on any day and leave with anything from crate engines to the little condom that goes on your LED. There are also a few tracks around here... a few.

So, I live in what is basically the best 50 square miles to build a domestic muscle car. There are 18 year old kids where I live that can tell you how to put 550 to the rear in a Nova.

I drive a Yaris.

Somehow I have an intake in my car that people are drooling for. And these domestic guys can manufacture MAF plates. And I can buy the rest at... you guessed it.

I'm on here so much I could almost tell you anything about this specific car. If not, I'm on here asking you guys within 12 hours. This is my finest resource, and the main reason isn't necessarily because of the advice. Its the vendors. If you want people who won't bullshit you on cars, talk to someone who deals with them every single day.

Yadda yadda yadda... now I'm sitting here with a car that looks 5 steps short of sex, I have a dyno and tuner to play with and I have a P&P sitting in my fucking lap.

In the heart of domestic country, there is a Yaris getting attention. This is easily the funniest shit I've ever done in my life. There is a LOT of pulling up and just having a good laugh.

Now, I'm at a point where I'm staring something in the face and I don't know if I can take the next step. I could possibly get this done, continue trying to tune this car and get lucky. If it takes hold, I now have a successful P&P sponsorship in my pocket... and I have an intake on the market. My goal from day one has been to just try and bring attention to it. Now I'm possibly holding the Yaris with the most interesting story in the country... and in debt 10 grand in a warranty-void car. Lets hope the poor bastard sells some intakes.

Flipside... I blow my car up and I'm fucked for life. You guys do such a wonderful job of reminding me of this, I couldn't thank you enough. The question is do I trust these domestic shops to play with a 1NZ. Keep in mind I have Baskin as my main guide, and I have literally never seen a problem he couldn't fix. Granted, there is no way to fix an overported head.

Now tell me what you'd do.

[acrbill]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Now tell me what you'd do.

You have to ask yourself this. Say by some miracle of God you toss a few mods together and go from 85whp to 105whp. I'm sure there has to be some sense of satisfaction there but in the end you still have a 105whp car that is slower than 99% of cars on the road.

I guess I just don't understand what your motivation is. Save up 3k and get a nice supercharger kit that will allow you to gain a nice chunk of power.

[Poorboy]

Hey, you're only young and cool once, so do it. Have fun with it and I think alot of your buddies with the 550 hp will appreciate the work you're putting into this car. If you fck it up i'll give you a lift every once in a while.

[ChinoCharles]

Originally Posted by Poorboy

Hey, you're only young and cool once, so do it. Have fun with it and I think alot of your buddies with the 550 hp will appreciate the work you're putting into this car. If you fck it up i'll give you a lift every once in a while.

Ohio in a nutshell. I'm starting to like it here.

Bill, there are a hundred grand master plans swirling in my noggin, but honestly it all boils down to one thing... you're only young once, and I'm going to try everything I can possibly think of to not be a regular working stiff while I've still got time. Playing in my band and trying to build parts for this car can both make me money and neither feels like work, so for right now in my life these are my focuses.

The chances of me getting lucky in either are slim to none, but there is a chance. You'll never succeed if you never try.

Oh, and fuck school. I've had it up to my earlobes with the status quo.

[Black Yaris]

Chino... is our head the same as a XA, XB or Echo? If so.... I am sure I can get you those all day long if there is a fuck up

[ChinoCharles]

I'd assume so... same engine, similar HP specs. Guys?

[Dragonacc]

Chino, your part of Ohio sounds like where I live. We have a Summit here too, and several really really good engine/machine shops. Atlanta Motor Speedway, Road Atlanta up north etc. etc.

I wish you the best of luck with your endeavors in 1NZ power production.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by Dragonacc

Chino, your part of Ohio sounds like where I live. We have a Summit here too, and several really really good engine/machine shops. Atlanta Motor Speedway, Road Atlanta up north etc. etc.

I wish you the best of luck with your endeavors in 1NZ power production.

I am in Ohio and used to live in Atlanta and Atlanta is WAY better, come on you have a NOPI store in forest park, and tuner shops all over the place. But there is NO comparison with machine shops, I bet there are more machine shops here in Toledo than there are McDonalds and Taco Bell's together... no shit.... but I still wish I was back in the ATL.... I hate the cold