WHY do I want one so bad?

[tomato]

Originally Posted by YarisOwnersDad

Since cars are equipped differently, it is hard to know what kind of deals people are getting, unless they get a car equipped just like the one you want to buy. Someone can tell you what he paid for his car, but if he had fewer options than you want, his price is not directly comparable with yours. The same would be true if he were getting more options.

The beauty of working with invoice price is that you can compare deals on cars that do not necessarily have the same options. Find out what people are paying in relation to invoice for the type of car you want, and then start calling dealers asking them how much in relation to invoice they are willing to sell your type of car for. Obviously, invoice is higher on a car with more options and is less on cars with fewer options, but for comparing deals, finding out how much over or under invoice the dealer is willing to sell for will give you a good idea of how good the deal is.

Tom

I understand that part. Kind of like buying a computer directly from the manufacturer's website and configuring the options you like, and seeing the price change depending on what you want. No problem.

The part that confuses me a bit more is all the game playing at the dealership, the back-and-forth between the sales guy and the guy in the back office, and all this other stuff, the last minute paperwork, add-ons, etc.. I didn't know you could ask to see the invoice, so thanks for that.

BTW, would the invoice price be the same thing as the price quoted on Toyota manufacturer's website when you configure your vehicle yourself?

Sorry if these questions seem real basic but always bought my cars used from private parties before I got this Yaris, and getting a car from a dealership (even a used car) is a bit of a headache if you're not used to the process.

PS. And these questions help the wanna-be Yaris owners out there still lurking in the forum

[YarisOwnersDad]

Originally Posted by MauiDan

Hi Tom...Dan here...I just bought our 2nd Yaris Auto (no power) sedan in under 2 years. The first was an 07 Flint Mica- love the car and color..last week I bought an 09 (wife is getting the 07 and her old Taurus going to our son).
The 09 is Silver Streak Mica althoiugh another Flint Mica woulda been fine.

I'm 53. I thought this may help you.

I have never bought a car without the dealer going into holdback on it.

That said I have always bought either at the end of a model year or end of a month. I bought the 09 on 3-31-09. Better bargaining position in my humble opinion.

Now back to dealer holdback. The dealer does have more room on your cobalt because in effect if he is selling you the new yaris AT invoice (and ask to see the invoice of course) he still has approx. $275.00 which was the dealer holdback on my 09 auto sedan (with no power just conv. pkg,all weather and mats).

So if he "begs" the trade in guy to go to 8750 on your cobalt then tell him you are going to wait until May...go in on the 29th or 30th of April and tell him you will buy if he goes 8750 on the trade AND goes 200.00 into the Holdback. Or just give you 8950 for the trade and sell the car to me AT invoice.

Hope that helps Tom.

Both times I was under invoice on the Yarii because I refused to buy at or over invoice and played 3 dealers (Bermuda Triangle) against each other in a 45 mile radius. It always works for me here in upstate NY.

Good Luck.

-Dan

Dan:

Thanks for the nice long post. I appreciate your taking the time to do that for me.

You know, I would not lose sleep if I thought that maybe I had left a couple hundred bucks on the table after agreeing to a deal. I don't want to be ripped off, but allowing the dealer to make a couple hundred bucks above his absolute minimum profit margin doesn't bother me all that much, ESCPECIALLY if I am going to be going to that dealership for service after the sale.

I feel that I am ALWAYS treated better in the service departments of the dealerships where the cars were bought. Warranty work has to be done by any dealer, I know, but the dealership service departments where I have bought my cars seem to work with me better on scheduling, and they have also done a lot of things to save me money.

The Service Manager and the Parts Manager have a lot of discretion on what they can charge the customer, and that can be worth much more in the long run than the $200 or $300 one might have saved on the trade by going somewhere else.

Maybe one of these days I will get that Yaris!

Thanks again.

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Originally Posted by tomato

I understand that part. Kind of like buying a computer directly from the manufacturer's website and configuring the options you like, and seeing the price change depending on what you want. No problem.

The part that confuses me a bit more is all the game playing at the dealership, the back-and-forth between the sales guy and the guy in the back office, and all this other stuff, the last minute paperwork, add-ons, etc.. I didn't know you could ask to see the invoice, so thanks for that.

BTW, would the invoice price be the same thing as the price quoted on Toyota manufacturer's website when you configure your vehicle yourself?

Sorry if these questions seem real basic but always bought my cars used from private parties before I got this Yaris, and getting a car from a dealership (even a used car) is a bit of a headache if you're not used to the process.

PS. And these questions help the wanna-be Yaris owners out there still lurking in the forum

No, absolutely not! They would give you MSRP, or "sticker price." In the "old days," the customer never saw the invoice, and it would have been considered "rude" to ask to see it. I guess it was only after websites like Edmunds.com started posting invoice prices that it became common practice for customers to know how much in relation to invoice they were paying for their cars.

Don't be embarrassed about asking questions, Mater. No one is going to make fun of you for it. How else are you going to learn?

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Here we go again! Please tell me if I am simply trying to justify this trade, or is this really a logical way to weigh the pros and cons of trading my Cobalt for a Yaris. If I am being unbiased and am truly considering all the pertinent factors, then this trade seems to be a reasonable thing to do. It would be sort of a toss up, I think. It sure does NOT make the trade sound like utter foolishness.

I posted this in my Yaris World blog.

"Am I just rationalizing, or does looking at it this way really make sense?

If I keep the Cobalt, I pay 53 more payments of $228, or $12,084.

If I trade for the Yaris sedan, which stickers at $16,514, and if I take the dealer up on his offer to sell the Yaris at $100 over invoice and to allow me $8500 trade-in on the Cobalt, and if I go with the 0% interest for 60 months that is available now, I will pay 60 payments of $314, or $18,840.

The difference, then, between paying off the Cobalt and trading it in on the new Yaris is $6756. A conservative estimate of savings on fuel during those 60 months is $1800, and that asssumes that gas stays at $2.00 per gallon. Who believes THAT is gonna happen?

So, $6756 minus the $1800 fuel savings means that the net effect of this trade over the next five years would be no more than $4956.

What would the difference in resale value be between a six year old Cobalt with 108,000 miles on it vs. a five year old Yaris with 90,000 miles on it? Would that possibly be another $1500 to $2000 that I could knock off from that $4956 cost to trade?

Somebody chime in here and help me!

Tom"

[evil genius]

This could be a stretch but with GM on the edge of collapse, the value of the cobalt could be $0 by the end of this year.

[frownonfun]

GM isn't gonna collapse. geez. bankruptcy maybe but the company will still be there all the same.

[evil genius]

Originally Posted by frownonfun

GM isn't gonna collapse. geez. bankruptcy maybe but the company will still be there all the same.

Sorry if I offended you. I thought that saying it was a stretch would imply that I was kidding.

Just trying to help the guy out. When I try to justify something I grasp at every last straw I can get.

[YarisOwnersDad]

I appreciate all the help I can get.

Tom

[evil genius]

Here's a real factor to look into. Possible tax credit on new car purchases through end of 2009.
As long as you make less than $250,000 a year and purchase a car less than $50,000 you could qualify for tax credit on interest and sales/excise tax.

[Ed_]

Dont' know if Insurance would become a factor?
Of course you haven't mentioned upgrades:-)
And then again, have you figured in the counseling sessions if you don't get a Yaris:-)
Just asking;-)

[tomato]

Originally Posted by YarisOwnersDad

No, absolutely not! They would give you MSRP, or "sticker price." In the "old days," the customer never saw the invoice, and it would have been considered "rude" to ask to see it. I guess it was only after websites like Edmunds.com started posting invoice prices that it became common practice for customers to know how much in relation to invoice they were paying for their cars.

Don't be embarrassed about asking questions, Mater. No one is going to make fun of you for it. How else are you going to learn?

Tom

Really?!!! Good to know!!! Thank you!!!

[tomato]

Originally Posted by evil genius

Here's a real factor to look into. Possible tax credit on new car purchases through end of 2009.
As long as you make less than $250,000 a year and purchase a car less than $50,000 you could qualify for tax credit on interest and sales/excise tax.

Tax credit? Please tell us more!

[roxy1]

Originally Posted by YarisOwnersDad

What would the difference in resale value be between a six year old Cobalt with 108,000 miles on it vs. a five year old Yaris with 90,000 miles on it? Would that possibly be another $1500 to $2000 that I could knock off from that $4956 cost to trade?
[/I][/B]

i think safe to say a 5 yr old yaris sedan w/ 90k would easily be worth more than a six yr old cobalt w/ 108k. how much exactly is hard to say. as gas prices shoot up, the difference should increase even more.

to be blunt about it, it is hard to imagine that with your history you will be driving the yaris 5 years from now.

does this sound familiar?

"I said somewhere up this thread that I have never made a trade that I regretted, and that is true of each deal individually. Collectively, however, there have been way too many trades, and I regret having made so many."

[frownonfun]

Originally Posted by evil genius

Sorry if I offended you. I thought that saying it was a stretch would imply that I was kidding.

Just trying to help the guy out. When I try to justify something I grasp at every last straw I can get.

no i'm not offended. i've never really owned anything but honda, toyota, or yamaha. when i had a choice that is. didn't realize you were kidding. my bad.



as for the OP i think you should just buy the yaris already.

[cdavidhess]

Originally Posted by tomato

Tax credit? Please tell us more!

Special Tax Break Available for New Car Purchases This Year


IR-2009-30, March 30, 2009

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service announced today that taxpayers who buy a new passenger vehicle this year may be entitled to deduct state and local sales and excise taxes paid on the purchase on their 2009 tax returns next year.

“For those thinking about buying a new car this year, this deduction may give them a little more drive to make their purchase this year,” said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. “This deduction enables taxpayers to buy now and get cash back later on their tax returns.”

The deduction is limited to the state and local sales and excise taxes paid on up to $49,500 of the purchase price of a qualified new car, light truck, motor home or motorcycle.

The amount of the deduction is phased out for taxpayers whose modified adjusted gross income is between $125,000 and $135,000 for individual filers and between $250,000 and $260,000 for joint filers.

IRS also alerted taxpayers that the vehicle must be purchased after Feb. 16, 2009, and before Jan. 1, 2010, to qualify for the deduction.

The special deduction is available regardless of whether a taxpayer itemizes deductions on their return. The IRS reminded taxpayers the deduction may not be taken on 2008 tax returns.

[tomato]

Thanks you for the link! ^
Although at the same time, California has increased the sales tax and income tax, so... I will definitely check that out, thanks!!!

[Yaris Hilton]

That actually spurred my wife and me to go looking, ending in our buying two new Yarises. That and recent slow sales causing nice sales incentives and flexible deals.

[tomato]

^ gotcha. What were you driving before, Yaris Hilton?

BTW, I found this at Turbotax:

"Deduct the Sales Tax Paid on a New Car
If you buy a new car, pickup truck, motorcycle or motor home this year you could qualify for a new sales tax deduction, thanks to the stimulus law passed on February 17, 2009.

You can deduct the sales tax you pay on a new vehicle, if you buy it between February 17 and December 31, 2009. And you get this tax break even if you claim the standard deduction—as most taxpayers do—rather than itemizing deductions on your tax return.

For people who take the standard deduction on their 2009 returns next spring, the sales tax deduction will be added to their standard deduction. For example, the standard deduction for married couples for 2009 is $11,400. If a couple pays 6 percent sales tax on a $30,000 car, they can add the $1,800 sales tax to the $11,400 and claim a standard deduction of $13,200. That $1,800 deduction could be worth as much as $450 in tax savings for a car buyer who’s in the 25 percent tax bracket.

Taxpayers who itemize deductions will include their vehicle sales taxes with other qualifying expenses, such as state and local income and property taxes, mortgage interest, charitable contributions and medical expenses ... "

http://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools...dits/7113.html

hmmm...