Scion XB 1NZ-FE Turbo build

[xnamerxx]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Well there you go, 1 reason (the biggest) for the difference in HP is that he is NOT using the VVTI. So in essence you cant compare a NA dyno that uses VVTI to his....

Explain to me how this matters, hes not running a stock cam iirc and not only that he doesn't have a stock intake and why dont his torque numbers drop sharply like they would if he fell out of the stock cams torque band. Not only that doesnt Garm use stock cams with vvti turned off.

I wont say im a expert at tuning but what im seeing on his dyno sheet is very obvious to whats going on. Im not saying maxing the turbo out is bad just saying he did that and his dyno proves it.

As for running lean its not detonation you need to worry about its going to be scuffing pistons and cracking rings and ringlands and pre-ignition.

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by H3LlIoN

Also, I'm currently picking my nose and drinking a miller light. I may or may not have already consumed a number of long island iced teas.

Now thats funny!!!

[xbgod]

Garm, your no hater. I still love you...........In a non-gay way!

My tunnner "Rolo" is coming over to the shop on my side of the bay for a tweak on my ride for street driving. Setting it up as the way I drive and not just a heated pull on the dyno.

XBG

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by H3LlIoN

And in regards to this, I highly doubt that Garm is comparing an NA dyno to Aras'....I think he's more comparing his non-vvt-i turbo set up.

Never accused Garm of anything, xnamerxx is the one comparing....

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

All I did was ask two questions. (1. Why does it stop making power at 5200, and why was it tuned that lean). I was called a hater and now hostile. I haven't said a critical thing about the build or the tune. Lame.
I asked why, it was just a question. Art's didn't (280whp). Mine doesn't (357 whp). So, that question remains unanswered. "That's just the way it is" is not a useful answer.

The second question really belongs with the tuner, as he seems to be the only one who can answer it. "It likes it there" is great to hear, but again is not a useful answer IMO.

xbgod, you got great numbers. (I already said that). If you're not curious about the why of these things, that's fine, it's your project of course!

You assumed I was calling you hostile, I was not referring to you at all.

[H3LlIoN]

Originally Posted by xbgod

Garm, your no hater. I still love you...........In a non-gay way!

The actual correct terminology is "no homo."

[cdydjded]

xnamerxx: Explain to me how this matters, hes not running a stock cam iirc and not only that he doesn't have a stock intake and why dont his torque numbers drop sharply like they would if he fell out of the stock cams torque band. Not only that doesnt Garm use stock cams with vvti turned off.
You cannot compare Garms build to xB build to Art's build. They are all different. The only thing they have in common is the the are turbocharged.
I wont say im a expert at tuning but what im seeing on his dyno sheet is very obvious to whats going on. Im not saying maxing the turbo out is bad just saying he did that and his dyno proves it.
What is obviously going on?
As for running lean its not detonation you need to worry about its going to be scuffing pistons and cracking rings and ringlands and pre-ignition.
How do pistons get "scuffed"
BTW detonation & pre ignition is the same thing....

[H3LlIoN]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

You cannot compare Garms build to xB build. They are all different. The only thing they have in common is the the are turbocharged.

I beg to differ. While they have inherent differences, they are running the same engine, the same compressor (turbo), and similar fuel systems. Obviously we cannot compare the flow characteristics of the head work and tuning maps, but given the ultimate goal of both machinists/tuners involved, I think that these two builds are more similar than you are giving them credit for.

^that post is for Carlos. For everybody else that doesn't understand what is going on, I'm not saying these two builds are in any way identical.




Also, Cotton needs new shorts, and I still would like some discussion on ETs, as I am a 1/4 mile nut. Aras, did you run the old build? Are you gonna run this one? Any idea what you think she'll run?



And I'm out of beer. Anyone close to VA?

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by H3LlIoN

I beg to differ. While they have inherent differences, they are running the same engine, the same compressor (turbo), and similar fuel systems. Obviously we cannot compare the flow characteristics of the head work and tuning maps, but given the ultimate goal of both machinists/tuners involved, I think that these two builds are more similar than you are giving them credit for.

^that post is for Carlos. For everybody else that doesn't understand what is going on, I'm not saying these two builds are in any way identical.

Here are some key differences:

1 The port job on the head
2 Weapon-R sheet metal intake
3 Edlebrock Victor-X 70mm TB
4 Garrett GTX-2860 RS Turbo w/ SS Housing and Billet Wheel
5 LHT Performance custom Exhaust manifold/ down pipe and all intercooling pipe
6 680cc Precision injectors

All the above items make HIS build incomparable to Garms or Arts......

[H3LlIoN]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Here are some key differences:

1 The port job on the head
2 Weapon-R sheet metal intake
3 Edlebrock Victor-X 70mm TB
4 Garrett GTX-2860 RS Turbo w/ SS Housing and Billet Wheel
5 LHT Performance custom Exhaust manifold/ down pipe and all intercooling pipe
6 680cc Precision injectors

All the above items make HIS build incomparable to Garms or Arts......

I actually took the time to respond to each of these points individually and weigh a valid argument for why the builds are similar enough to be comparable, but then I re-read your response, and realized that you are far too defensive and obtuse at this time to actually give any serious thought to a word that I would have said. I initially though that someone with (what I thought was) your level of understanding of what goes in to engine design would understand my initial comment, hence why I singled you out so that others wouldn't read in to what I had posted. I guess I had given you too much credit, although I doubt that's it. In my experience with you, you seem decently knowledgeable. Perhaps you just aren't willing at this time to hear any other points of view. Some other time, I guess.

Also, I'm still out of beer. How close are you to VA? Wanna grab a beer and talk shop? My treat...

[cdydjded]

defensive and obtuse, wow. And on that note Im done........

[H3LlIoN]

No, no, no. You got it all wrong.

You're supposed to say "What? What did you call me"

and then I'm supposed to post "Obtuse. Is it deliberate?"

And then you're up again with "Son, you're forgetting yourself."

and we go back and forth like that for a while, and I end up getting a bunch of time in solitary.

[Yoda]

Ehh whats going on here. Been awhile since i seen this type dribble since Tamago days. Lets not attack each other over a dyno sheet its not that serious.

[H3LlIoN]

I'm not attacking anyone.

[PETERPOOP]

So can we see that video? :)

[Parmas]

I really don't understand this post and I hope that XBgod can respond clearly here

Originally Posted by xbgod

Also the XB starts to fall on it face at around 5000-5200 RPM. Paul at Dezod can even tell you this.

What do you mean by fall on its face?

It's just the way it is.

The way it is? I really don't know what do you mean?

As far as being lean My car likes it there. It dosen't detonate and pulls like a beast. More than likely because of my 107 octane and M1 meth.

Your car likes it there? I never heard of an XB talking maybe you really are an XBgod

All is well so I hope this helps, if not sorry..........I'm running'em down and enjoying the car.

I hope you will still enjoy your car really, but no one said running lean will selfdestruct immidately but in time it happens and I hope you want cry on this forum if it happens since we warned you

XBG

[xnamerxx]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

xnamerxx: Explain to me how this matters, hes not running a stock cam iirc and not only that he doesn't have a stock intake and why dont his torque numbers drop sharply like they would if he fell out of the stock cams torque band. Not only that doesnt Garm use stock cams with vvti turned off.
You cannot compare Garms build to xB build to Art's build. They are all different. The only thing they have in common is the the are turbocharged.
I wont say im a expert at tuning but what im seeing on his dyno sheet is very obvious to whats going on. Im not saying maxing the turbo out is bad just saying he did that and his dyno proves it.
What is obviously going on?
As for running lean its not detonation you need to worry about its going to be scuffing pistons and cracking rings and ringlands and pre-ignition.
How do pistons get "scuffed"
BTW detonation & pre ignition is the same thing....

Its simple air consumption is related to the amount of power you can make. If the limiting factor is his turbo which can only flow x amount of air no matter how much you rev the thing it will only consume as much air as the turbo is capable of putting out. Thats why his power band stays so flat. If you look at people who max the turbo out on their evo or sti or gti they all do the same thing.

When you run lean your combustion temperatures get hotter then optimal. Heat causes metal to expand. Since a piston and cylinder only have so much clearance if the metal expands to much it will reduce clearances and press against the walls of the cylinder which causes the pistons to scuff in the bore. Also running hotter will cause the rings to expand more then designed for and if the rings touch end to end they will crack and probably break the ring land in the piston causing a failure.

As for detonation and pre-ignition being the same thing no. If you believe that I suggest you google the subject. You get detonation from a many things but it always happens after the spark and pre-ignition before the spark.

Since you clearly don't understand/believe the information being given maybe you should try to prove why your right rather then argue why I'm wrong.

[cdydjded]

I stand corrected on the detonation/pre ignition. As for anything else I will comment no more.