disappointed in the aftermarket

[cali yaris]

^ that's not a bad idea. But if people are willing to do a little custom work, why haven't people bought the Weapon R intake?

[Focus_Sh1ft]

trying to gain some bolt on performance for my yaris, the right way

This baffles me. What is the right way? Buy every bolt on performance part for maybe a 10 hp gain cumulative?

I agree the aftermarket is barely there. However, and feel free to call me narrow-minded, but if you want appreciable performance you have to get forced induction. I spent over a grand in bolt-ons before I realized I still had no chance of keeping up with soccer moms.

[car_buff]

Originally Posted by Focus_Sh1ft

This baffles me. What is the right way? Buy every bolt on performance part for maybe a 10 hp gain cumulative?

I agree the aftermarket is barely there. However, and feel free to call me narrow-minded, but if you want appreciable performance you have to get forced induction. I spent over a grand in bolt-ons before I realized I still had no chance of keeping up with soccer moms.

the right way is going all the way to the engine block, none of this axleback exhaust shenanigans, or these so cold cold air or short ram intakes that connect to the stock tb and manifold. none of those are fixing the problem, a restrictive intake manifold and cat. I intend to through it all away, the entirety of both whole systems, and replace them. the exhaust will be easier, so long as I can find a high flow cat in 2.25 diameter, because I'll be using generic prefabbed mandril bent steel, a cheap pair of used headers (depending upon the find I'd like dc's or megans, but nobody seems to be willing to part with theres unless theyve upgraded to a turbo, which is not super common) or possibly those ebay cheapies, although I'd rather not, a few of them look hardly better than a polished version of the oem manifold.

the intake is going to be troublesome, as it has several thing's attached to I don't even know what they are for. MAFS would be easy enough to relocate, but there's some rubberized hose attached to it as well, and I dunno what it's for, how it works, and how what I have in mind will effect it, even if I make a replica connection to my intake manifold. is the increased air flow going to effect whatever that thing is, and and if so, negatively or positively? for anyone willing to give a shout out...



ps. anyone know the diameter of the 1.5l tb and the 1.8l tb off the top of their heads?

btw, an example of what a real intake looks like, though a bit too much tube for my taste. i'm going to try to have them go straight down to a collector (ie throttlebody) with a wide mouth scoop under the radiator to pull off legit ram air intake mani. should be fun.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

^ That's one of the PCV hoses. On my setup, I have that line going to an oil catch can, then back to the manifold.

I commend you for your willingness to make your own intake manifold, but can only wonder if it will be worth it. On NA, I doubt that it's as big of a restriction as you're making it out to be.

Btw, dunno the TB diameters, but I can tell you the 1ZZ compared to the 1NZ is a huge difference. Nearly double in size.

[YarisPR]

Originally Posted by car_buff

The only air going in my IM (oem) is the one coming from the CAI, the other hoses are gone

[Thirty-Nine]

The reason there is not full cat-back exhaust system is because Toyota welds a cat into the piping. You can't just unbolt it at the cat like you could on a Civic, for example. So, rather than sell a $700+ exhaust system that includes a cat, they offer an axleback. Then, those that want to do a cat back at least have the back section. There are plenty of companies that offer axle-back exhaust systems (plus some people just want the sound). Heck, Borla offers an axle-back rear section for my dad's Corvette.

If you search (perhaps you already did) about intake manifolds, there has been research done, but there isn't an off-the-shelf item. Why? Likely demand. There is such a small sect of us lunatic fringe people that modify our Yarii, that it probably don't make business sense to do that. Ditto that for the other mods.

It's just a fact that there aren't a ton of people modding Yarii or other subcompact vehicles. I'm very happy for what we have, though, and Garm at Micro Image and NST have been good conduits for getting product to market.

[cali yaris]

the intake is going to be troublesome, as it has several thing's attached to I don't even know what they are for.

a cheap pair of used headers

there's some rubberized hose attached to it as well, and I dunno what it's for

Now I understand.

[xnamerxx]

Originally Posted by car_buff

the right way is going all the way to the engine block, none of this axleback exhaust shenanigans, or these so cold cold air or short ram intakes that connect to the stock tb and manifold. none of those are fixing the problem, a restrictive intake manifold and cat. I intend to through it all away, the entirety of both whole systems, and replace them. the exhaust will be easier, so long as I can find a high flow cat in 2.25 diameter, because I'll be using generic prefabbed mandril bent steel, a cheap pair of used headers (depending upon the find I'd like dc's or megans, but nobody seems to be willing to part with theres unless theyve upgraded to a turbo, which is not super common) or possibly those ebay cheapies, although I'd rather not, a few of them look hardly better than a polished version of the oem manifold.

the intake is going to be troublesome, as it has several thing's attached to I don't even know what they are for. MAFS would be easy enough to relocate, but there's some rubberized hose attached to it as well, and I dunno what it's for, how it works, and how what I have in mind will effect it, even if I make a replica connection to my intake manifold. is the increased air flow going to effect whatever that thing is, and and if so, negatively or positively? for anyone willing to give a shout out...



ps. anyone know the diameter of the 1.5l tb and the 1.8l tb off the top of their heads?

btw, an example of what a real intake looks like, though a bit too much tube for my taste. i'm going to try to have them go straight down to a collector (ie throttlebody) with a wide mouth scoop under the radiator to pull off legit ram air intake mani. should be fun.

I have to ask this question, if you don't know what your looking at on the engine how do you feel comfortable enough in tearing it apart?

[tk1971]

Just weighing in, as someone who has taken a car to the hilt and went full circle back to an econo-commuter.

1) The Yaris is a ~100 hp front wheel drive car. Toyota implemented an electronic power steering mechanism just to spare the engine of an additional belt driven device (I'm assuming this fact, which may or may not be true). How much more power can there be without forced induction?

2) Even with more power (I would imagine a turbo or supercharger can give a good 20-50 HP at the wheels depending on tuning and PSI). How much power is usable with the stock drive train? Remember, it's a front wheel drive car without a limited slip. How much power is too much for the transmission (whichever tranny of your choosing)?

3) I've had a 95 Civic DX once when I was younger. I fell for the ads full of girls and promises of running against Mustangs. I didn't see more power until I added a NOS kit. Then after blowing the engine, I got more reliable power with a JDM Integra Type R engine swap. Not cheap.

4) After the Civic, I got myself a V6 Maxima, then the first year IS300. The Max was a beast with cat deletes, exhaust and CAI, but it was still front wheel drive and left me wanting. The IS300 was a joke and a lemon. I swore I'd never own another Toyota.

5) I then got the first year WRX in 02. AWD was the way to go in power distribution. Engine was solid and had more power than I'd ever had with the IS300. Reliable too (in stock form). Then, I slapped a VF30 turbo on that thing, along with all the needed stuff (STI injectors, bigger fuel pump, Perrin fuel rail, cat deletes, full exhaust, electronic boost controller, and a piggyback computer with dyno map to control it all). Dynoed with comparable horsepower and torque as the JDM STI that wasn't available in the US at the time. I was perfectly happy until I busted something. As I understand it, the piggyback ECU was electrically vamp clamped to the stock ECU and something went loose, leaning out one of the cylinders. I lost compression in one cylinder after dumping over $5k into the car. I will never trust another t-tap connector again.

6) My stock EVO IX was a beast. Better than my VF30 WRX in every way. This is especially true with the brakes. Note to all tuners... Don't forget upgrading brakes if you add HP to your car. Stopping/handling is just as important as going. I left the EVO stock. Had kids and can't use it with a newborn due to the harsh suspension.

7) Had a couple more vehicles here and there. But hopefully, you get the idea about power.

I'm now perfectly happy with my stock manual tranny Yaris with only a 19mm rear sway bar. It is what it is, an econo-car for commuting. Just keep the mods in perspective with the stock engine capabilities. Don't expect miracles without spending lots of money. Happy modding.

[Viperoni]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Now I understand.

I was waiting for somebody to point this out ;)

[fnkngrv]

I agree with Garm and the senior buys altogether. I guess I am still confused on why the OP is concentrating so hard on the intake and exhaust? If you are a car buff then you would know that those aren't going to buy you what it sounds like you are looking for in a bump. Some type of forced induction is really the only way to go to get really decent gains if you are not going to rebuild the bottom end of the motor. As for the car not having a limited slip and that literally limiting you on how much power you can put to the ground you are right, but I have also spoken with a few folks that are in the 200-250 hp range without one and they seem to do fine. I have no doubt that moving over to the LSD would net them even more real bump to the pavement. Other than a Starlet swap into my 96 Tercel this is my real foray into an import. I am used to the American muscle cars of the 60s/70s which maybe the OP is as well. Other than the B series in the Hondas what other economy (especially import) powerplants have you heard of being built for pure performance and as Garm said in a short period of years?

[cali yaris]

2) Even with more power (I would imagine a turbo or supercharger can give a good 20-50 HP at the wheels depending on tuning and PSI). How much power is usable with the stock drive train? Remember, it's a front wheel drive car without a limited slip. How much power is too much for the transmission (whichever tranny of your choosing)?

357 whp is not too much. Stock trans is holding up just fine.

with the right tires and an LSD, it put the power DOWN too.

[cali yaris]

How much more power can there be without forced induction?

Jason is making great power in the N/A Yaris race car. However, you can't get big gains without tuning and management.

[cali yaris]

I would imagine a turbo or supercharger can give a good 20-50 HP at the wheels depending on tuning and PSI)

Your estimate is low. Customers bolting on the Zage turbo kit ($1629 shipped) and then tuning it are getting +80 whp.

[yaris rs]

Originally Posted by car_buff

I've spent a lot of time looking up parts, trying to gain some bolt on performance for my yaris, the right way, and it seems relatively impossible due to a lack luster aftermarket, and apparently customers content with that.

Until I started looking at parts for my yaris I had never heard of an "axle back exhaust". Seriously, its a muffler and a tip. A relatively minor part of a system whose biggest effect is soumd, which is great, but not what I'm looking for overall. The selection of headers is decent, at least there's that, but why no high flow cats? Easily the most restrictive part of any exhaust system is a shitty manifold followed by oem cats. And all this mid pipe business, why isn't it just referred to as tubing like everywhere else?


Personally I'm not spending the kind of money this aftermarket has grown used to getting for this car. But I'm not content to leave it stock. This won't be easy, but I'm going to start gathering stuff I need to build my own, quality and FULL intake and exhaust systems for as cheap as can be. I know quality and cheap to be an oxymoron in general, but doing the work yourself usually yields the best of both worlds .

Notable mention: NST's underdrive and light weight pulleys are the only performance product out there that I'm satisfied with, a respectable price for a precision machine and balanced product that yields an actual gain? I haven't bought them yet, but they are on the list (soon as I figure out what to underdrive, just lighten, or overdrive according to my needs)

Ps, why are there no brain kits for the auto tranny? I'm a stranger to fwd til now, but surely brain kits will work as well for a fwd as well as a rwd?

I will play just because.

1) Wtf were you thinking when you bought an econocar + high-performance aftermarket parts... where do you ever see those 2 words associated in the car world.

2) Are you an idiot-savant or something? In reguards to your 2nd post... "lower costs by having customers build the item..". You obviously have no concept of business, marketing or logic. The average consumer doesn't work on their cars as-is and you 'expect' people to house a welder in their garage like a microwave in their kitchen?? Right...
Also do you know the time/money that goes into product development? Do you seriously think Garm has a dyno, 50k and endless time to make something to sell you @ 1/2 price because you want to play 'mechanic' in your spare time with your AT econo-high-performance car?

3) You gather everything you need to build a 'quality' full intake and exhaust, enjoy the 10-15hp. Or take that time, energy and other resources and buy a turbo head unit and fabricate from there.. you might actually get your money/heart's worth with that setup.

I'm not personally attacking you, merely stating and pointing out the flaws with your cognition and perception. (in a direct/blunt manner)

[tk1971]

Garm,

Those look like respectable numbers, but I can't compare, since all my AWD dyno experience has been with a Dynalog Dyno. All my front wheel turbo car observations are based on the turbo Neon. I consistently see them spin out on one wheel.

[big lo]

Wow, lol

[tk1971]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Your estimate is low. Customers bolting on the Zage turbo kit ($1629 shipped) and then tuning it are getting +80 whp.

In my case with my WRX, tuning on a dyno cost more than I expected. As a daily driver, I'd encounter on-road problems, then it's back to the tuner, etc... Gets old.

What does ~100 HP stock Yaris translate to in whp on the dyno you use? About 80? Add 80 more and that's about 160whp. What does a stock SRT4 (Neon) pull on the same dyno? Looking strictly at money (kits, install, tuning, wheels/tires, etc.), sometimes it's cheaper to start off with more. 160 wph is also about the point where an LSD becomes a good idea. I can't imagine driving in the rain w/o one at that point (expecially with stock 14's or even 15's). Just saying...

Props to you and your Yaris beast, but mine is just a daily driver and I'm perfectly happy with it. My post to the OP was to help him keep things in perspective and to have a well defined goal before spending money.