GM Govt. Bailout?

[Phaeton]

Just imagine the hit to the economy, if all those people lost their jobs.

[Nigal]

I'm not happy about GM going under but did anyone not see it coming? For the last 10 years working at a GM plant has been as secure as working at a 78 rpm record factory.

And another question that needs to be asked: Why spend all this cash on a load/bail out to save Mexican and Canadian jobs?

[eco]

If the American companys fail here,Toyota and others will seriously open up shop in USA,thats how you get the jobs back.

[churp]

Chapter 11 is the only way to make them change their ways....there has been little change in the big 3 since the 1st gas crisis in the 70's. They have lived off of the public that has bought their product, for whatever reason, even though other markets have provided superior alternatives....if they would have even come close to the foreign markets in cost/reliability/etc. they would be on top, but they didn't even try. If they recieve a bailout, why would they try now???

[talnlnky]

Sure... bail them out.... under the condition that they will import that tata nano (or whatever its called) and buy the rights to sell those Air cars when they go into production in like 2011.

if we bail them out... they better have something worth while.

If the public pays... there should at least be some benefit for the public. "saving jobs" just doesn't cut it.

[PetersRedYaris]

Originally Posted by Nigal

If a company is unable to run it's business so that they offer a marketable product then they should be allowed to fail. It will only strengthen the rest of the industry in the long run. Bail outs do nothing but prolong the suffering. Look at AIG. They are already coming back to the trough for seconds.

Can anyone honestly say that it is right and proper for a company to assume all profits yet we, the tax payers, assume all risk? No.

Nigal- one of the smartest Yarisworldians around...

[TLyttle]

I have no interest in seeing a major recession (depression?) either, but the Big Three has been building buggy whips for awhile now, and demanding that people buy them. Every once in awhile I run across some happy guy that says, "I buy cars made in America, right or wrong, I don't care that your Toy car is getting 50mpg, I am supporting my country!" And then I really don't know whether to laugh or cry.

For 50 years I have never considered fuel cost to be a consideration: I was getting 40mpg out of my vehicles long before it became stylish. I took the abuse about "when are you gonna buy a REAL car" etc, yet I had more fun than most in my vehicles. If I thought Toyota would build a convertible Yaris, I would be on the buyers list immediately. But the thought of buying a Pontiac just flips my stomach, the closest to what I am used to. I am still lusting after a Miata, even better...

[tk-421]

Chances Dwindle on Bailout Plan for Automakers

The prospects of a government rescue for the foundering American automakers dwindled Thursday as Democratic Congressional leaders conceded that they would face potentially insurmountable Republican opposition during a lame-duck session next week.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/business/14auto.html

[Nigal]

Originally Posted by PetersRedYaris

Nigal- one of the smartest Yarisworldians around...

I wouldn't go that far. How about best looking in stead?

[Woody_Woodchuck]

Chapter 11. Even with a bailout jobs will be lost. One bailout is not going to be enough, they will be back for more.

Giving them money for having a company that has not been business smart is ridiculous. It really does not give them any immediate incentive to turn the company around to make it financially stable. A bailout will only buy them time before this happens again, it is short term solution. And, how much money is it really going to take, 25 Billion is nowhere near enough to get that large of an operation turned around. I understand that the auto industry fingers are into everything and many, many people are affected. But, no matter how much cash they receive, they are going to have to cut jobs, production costs and scale back on everything to make it. Let’s get the ball rolling now instead of putting this off for a few years at taxpayer’s expense.

Bankruptcy will force them to re-think their business plan and they will be dealing with their money, not mine. True, I will be paying unemployment and many other costs associated with layoffs but in the long run it is the right way to proceed.

[BailOut]

As soon as I saw this thread I started formulating a post in my head but I quickly found that ChinoCharles took the words right out of my mouth.

[CKaelin]

Looks like Bush has agreed to a $25 Billion Loan. I hope it's worth it!

[Altitude]

Fuck em. I don't want workers out on the streets either, but maybe that's what it will take to piss enough people off to ensure this kind of crap doesn't happen anymore.

Anytime someone complains about corporate corruption and greed the opposition rails on about market capitalism and how it is the only viable economic model. Well, live by the sword die by the sword I say. Let the market fail. It's the only way things will ever change.

[CKaelin]

Op-Ed Columnist

Bailout to Nowhere

By DAVID BROOKS
Published: November 14, 2008


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/op...prod=permalink

[Shroomster]

I see only one solution to this:



go ahead Gm, Ford, Chrysler, get a short term loan from amscot and maybe a few of their free money orders to pay the workers in canada and mexico.....

[TLyttle]

What's with the Canada/Mexico thing? Canada runs the most efficient plants in the system, are we going to be blamed for the crap that the Big Three designed? Geez, we're sorry.......

Having owned a number of US-built cars and trucks: crude on crude, always to big, always too fuel INefficient, always ready to fall apart at the slightest provocation. I have also owned Volvos and Toyotas: won't light the tires, but reliable to a fault. There is not ANY US-built vehicle that I would trade for my old 245 Volvo.

Let 'em sink.

[Shroomster]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

What's with the Canada/Mexico thing? Canada runs the most efficient plants in the system, are we going to be blamed for the crap that the Big Three designed? Geez, we're sorry.......

Let 'em sink.

if that was referring to me I was actually saying to pay the workers, they're the ones doing the actual suffering and work....

[TLyttle]

Agreed, pay the workers, but NOT Management, they are clearly not doing their jobs. I really can't explain why our plants work better than the US ones, apparently they just do.

It is also quite apparent that Canada is going to take a really big hit if the Big Three tank, and a very large area is going to be in bad shape. I still say these guys were looking for jobs when they found the ones they have now, and they can find another one. What bothers me is that it is possible that the pension plans will be raped by Management to pay for their gold parachutes.

Canada had its own auto industry for many years until the companies were bought out- or forced out- by the US. I see no reason why it can't be resurrected, other than the bureaucracies have made it as difficult as possible for a Canadian manufacturer to survive; something to do with GM et al supplying Deputy Ministers with new cars etc......

The news yesterday reported that the GM plants in China are making big profits; can you see where this is going?