Religious Question/Opinion

[MadMax]

A great discussion, and I applaud everyone who has positively contributed to it. So far it has remained very civil, and I hope that proves to the moderators that a lot of people in this forum can act as adults even while discussing contentious issues.

As for this situation, I agree that if you believe you lead a good life and do the right things, you should find the reward you expect once you life is over. However, one thing I have always said is never confuse faith (your beliefs) with religion (an organization whose members more or less follows certain beliefs). Religion has been the source of a lot of good and bad things in history, but many times it is used as justification for other desires.

My bottom line has always been to enjoy life, because it is a very short journey...

Cheers! M2

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Okay, so my gf has recently switched to Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) from Catholicism. Well, actually, it's her, her twin sister (also one of my best friends), and their eldest sister. Lately, my gf and I have been getting into debates over religion.

Here's the thing, my gf (and the rest of them), are saying that the only way to Heaven is to follow everything the Bible says; i.e. do not eat pork, do not do anything but stay home and read the Bible during Sabbeth (Friday through Saturday), etc. Well, not exactly that, it's more of showing that you love Jesus/God, and to do so, you follow the Bible, primarily the 10 Commandments. However, I have different beliefs on how to get into Heaven or Hell. I find it extremely hard to believe that a person who is genuinely good, but does not necessarily follow all of the Commandments/the Bible will not get into Heaven; yet, let's take a "bad" person (what ever that may be) that follows the Commandments/Bible; does that mean that that person has a better chance of getting into Heaven than the genuinely good person?

I found it highly irritating when my gf said that "Catholicism is the anti-Christ." We all have different beliefs, and there are people who do not even believe in a heaven and hell. Who is to say that those who do not follow/believe in SDA will go to hell? I mean, with other religions, doesn't that mean that SDA will go to their version of hell?

To me, religion shouldn't put people in a place where they live everyday of their life in fear and limitations. Why would God/High-Being want His/Her people to live their life like that?

I know my thoughts were all over the place, but what is your opinion/thoughts?

Many many people fear God. They express their devotion to Him by hewing to Biblical based laws. There is nothing wrong with fearing God.

This is gonna sound a bit harsh, but you might want to start letting go of her.

Imagine if you two permanently hooked up and had kids. How would they be raised? Your way or her way? She won't tolerate "Luke Warm" you know.

What about your diet, home life and so on? If it irritates you know how will it feel if you two marry?

The question you ought to be asking yourself is where this is all going to go in the future. I think you need to face the fact that you two are going to part the ways, probably sooner than later.

That you are asking us our opinion on the subject shows that you're seeking some sort of consensus for yourself. In the end you're going to have to hash this out yourself, and I think if you are going to be true to yourself you're going to conclude that... God works in mysterious ways.


I serve Him through my Works and Faith. I follow the 10 commandments pretty well. It's not hard to do, they're not a heavy burden and more often than not they simplify life greatly.

I set before myself the task of understanding His creation. To me the truth is a precious thing, but a slippery thing. You never really are certain what is going on in the world. You have to be ready to improvise, adapt and overcome, at any moment.

I think of God as a bit of a practical joker - I think He speaks with irony as well as emphatically. He also plays very rough at times. I realize that this may seem blasphemous but I think not - a personal relationship with God is... personal.

Gene

[TinyGiant]

there is truth in that for sure there is a seperation between religion and faith. There are plenty of catholics out there who dont believe in praying to mary.. but still attend catholic services .. some people have minor disconnects with their church.. unfortuneately you'll never find a perfect church.. but when looking look for one that challenges you, has a heart for community and helping the poor, sick, elderly. Churches that give sugar coated sermons arent challenging you and wont inspire spititual growth. The whole point of church is for fellowship and spiritial growth and worship or praises to God :)

[TinyGiant]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Many many people fear God. They express their devotion to Him by hewing to Biblical based laws. There is nothing wrong with fearing God.

This is gonna sound a bit harsh, but you might want to start letting go of her.

Imagine if you two permanently hooked up and had kids. How would they be raised? Your way or her way? She won't tolerate "Luke Warm" you know.

What about your diet, home life and so on? If it irritates you know how will it feel if you two marry?

The question you ought to be asking yourself is where this is all going to go in the future. I think you need to face the fact that you two are going to part the ways, probably sooner than later.

That you are asking us our opinion on the subject shows that you're seeking some sort of consensus for yourself. In the end you're going to have to hash this out yourself, and I think if you are going to be true to yourself you're going to conclude that... God works in mysterious ways.


I serve Him through my Works and Faith. I follow the 10 commandments pretty well. It's not hard to do, they're not a heavy burden and more often than not they simplify life greatly.

I set before myself the task of understanding His creation. To me the truth is a precious thing, but a slippery thing. You never really are certain what is going on in the world. You have to be ready to improvise, adapt and overcome, at any moment.

I think of God as a bit of a practical joker - I think He speaks with irony as well as emphatically. He also plays very rough at times. I realize that this may seem blasphemous but I think not - a personal relationship with God is... personal.

Gene

there is scripture pertaining to this very problem .. about being unequally yoked .. meaning be careful connecting with people who hold very different beliefs and outlooks. Chances are you'll bicker about things now and continue to bicker about them forever.. until it turns into bitterness and remorse and you'll end up breaking up anywho..
there is enough divorce in the world.. we dont need to add to it.

it does seem harsh too .. but when i was looking for wife or girlfriend or whatever I had 2-3 main requirements.. First off . she'd have to also be a Christian and second/thirldly NO SMOKERS and no crazy drunk partiers lol..
smoking is nasty and i know it would be a source of tension. so most times if i knew someone was a smoker/drinker and not on the same page spiritually i didnt bother pursuing .. which I'm glad because I know it probably saved me/others from unneeded stress and heartache.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by TinyGiant

it does seem harsh too .. but when i was looking for wife or girlfriend or whatever I had 2-3 main requirements.. First off . she'd have to also be a Christian and second/thirldly NO SMOKERS and no crazy drunk partiers lol..
smoking is nasty and i know it would be a source of tension. so most times if i knew someone was a smoker/drinker and not on the same page spiritually i didnt bother pursuing .. which I'm glad because I know it probably saved me/others from unneeded stress and heartache.

This is being prudent and shows the value of Biblical ideas. People are very difficult to change, even when they want to change themselves.

I used to hear that "opposites attract". That's probably true, but being opposites does not keep your together.

Gene

[supmet]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Here's the thing, my gf (and the rest of them), are saying that the only way to Heaven is to follow everything the Bible says; i.e. do not eat pork, do not do anything but stay home and read the Bible during Sabbeth (Friday through Saturday), etc. Well, not exactly that, it's more of showing that you love Jesus/God, and to do so, you follow the Bible, primarily the 10 Commandments. However, I have different beliefs on how to get into Heaven or Hell. I find it extremely hard to believe that a person who is genuinely good, but does not necessarily follow all of the Commandments/the Bible will not get into Heaven; yet, let's take a "bad" person (what ever that may be) that follows the Commandments/Bible; does that mean that that person has a better chance of getting into Heaven than the genuinely good person?

I found it highly irritating when my gf said that "Catholicism is the anti-Christ." We all have different beliefs, and there are people who do not even believe in a heaven and hell. Who is to say that those who do not follow/believe in SDA will go to hell? I mean, with other religions, doesn't that mean that SDA will go to their version of hell?

The whole works vs faith thing is pretty much summed up in ephesians 4:8-9

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

Pretty much that says to me good works comes after faith, not the other way around.

My problem with the bashing on SDA, is this. 2 Timothy 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is god-breathed and useful for training, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness". Now the whole idea behind the bible is that god controlled the canonical meetings, to decide which books would be in the bible. Now the previous verse from timothy, would tell me, that any book that GOD decided to put into HIS bible, would only contain useful, pertinent scriptures, and we should follow EVERYTHING in the bible... One hallucinatory dream by peter negates the entire old testament? A dream that very conveniently greatly reduced tensions between jews and gentiles in the early christian church?? The dream only mentions food products, and that somehow overturns half of the bible?

As for catholics, the whole praying to mary, and calling her the "co-redemtrix of the world" is ludicrous. Talk about something that isn't in the bible. That and the fact the entire church blackmailed its followers through the sale of indulgences. St. Peter's Basilica was built solely on money stolen from catholic people through this false teaching. The catholic church gave up on indulgences after luther and the reformation, but they still have most of the money to this day. They are one of the richest organizations in the world, and they let their parishes close, rather than selling paintings they have stored under the vatican. Oh, and there is nothing in the bible saying pastors/preachers/fathers/church leaders have to be celibate, and that one is kinda coming back to bite the catholic church in the ass..

As for heaven/hell, from the bible, the only way into heaven is believing that jesus died for your sins, and is your savior. Some people from every religion believe this, and there are people from every religion who don't believe this. The bible is pretty clear though, that there is no other back doors into heaven.


As for me, I'll take none of it thanks. Religion is the greatest mind control ever created. It makes use of people's fear of death, which is without question the greatest fear any person has(public speaking ain't got nothin)..

Anyways, for the hell of it. How would you all feel about your kind loving God, had you been born in china, wait no too easy, how about if you had been born on an island only inhabited by headhunting tribesman. You spend your whole life doing good, you never stole, killed, raped, or in anyway hurt another person. Unfortunately nobody on the island has heard of god, or christianity. Are you doomed to burn in the eternal fires of hell?? If yes, then please explain how the omnipotent god, creator of the universe, who "wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"(1st Timothy 2:4) was unable to satiate his needs. If no, then please explain how I get to heaven without believing in Jesus.

[KCALB SIRAY]

Originally Posted by jambo101

When religious/rightious people start telling me that their god is the way and mine isnt they lose me right there as there is only one god and he isnt playing religious favorites, he's within all of us no matter what religion we ascribe or not ascribe to.ya just gotta stop and listen once in a while,he's there.SDA are a fundamentalist group and they will slowly but surely destroy your relationship with your gf,unless of course you join them.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with on this, but hey, what the hell. He is right, 100%.

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

yeah if you look through all the "stories", the roots of all religions are more or less the same, the 10 commandments, more or less basic guidelines to a successful and peaceful civilization

and all those can be condensed to the even more simple:

"be excellent to each other"

Personally I'm not a religious person. I can understand the reasons for religion, there are times in my life where it would have been good to have the comfort of knowing there's something else beyond this life, some guardian angel or something... And those who cram their beliefs down others throats, I won't even comment on that.

Is there a God, is there not? I'm in no hurry to find out... But like I mentioned before there's just some things in my life that made me go hmmmm,what if?

So, Lazandro, I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, it's gotta be real uncomfortable, people can be truly blinded by faith...

I'm sure there's a passage somewhere in the Bible that says you should respect the beliefs of others... Find it, and what can she say?

Did you just quote Bill and Ted?


Anywho Laz, I'd like to sit here for an hour and go through the front and back door of all religions and the Bible, but to save you time, I'll throw this out to you. Following the Bible to its entirety requires you to take the good and the bad. If it's following the path or just falling off it, it needs to be dealt with. Not sure if SDA teaches this, but it's not always a "keep smiling" situation in every book of the Bible. Soooo, my advice is to follow what you know and believe, not what someone wants you to believe. I think you already know what you want to do in this case, and it does not mean that your relationship is going to suffer, it just means you are going to have to work at respecting each other.

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by KCALB SIRAY

Did you just quote Bill and Ted?

You cannot deny that that one phrase so well summarizes most of the 10 commandments and their equivalents in other religions...

[DefStarYaris]

Man, I would so join a Bill and Ted centered church.

[coheed]

Originally Posted by TinyGiant

of course he would say that.. hes a buddhist

What does being buddhist have to do with him saying that? Cause we buddhist arent trying to get to a promised land, we try to reach a state of complete spiritual knowledge, or enlightenment.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Ryu

As far as religion goes, all the religion is the same to me. It is like looking at the moon from West and East, the name of the god might be different, the moon might looks different, but they are all correct about their belief.

The big religion was never created by the creator himselve, but the disciple gather everything he said and put them into a religion. All was created in different time and different area and their teaching is based on the people in those area. So some is more emphasis on love , and some is more emphasis on equality, but all is the same.

Just look at all the black, white, asian people, we all have red blood inside.
Also look at all the animal on earth, except snake and insect, they all have the same place of eyes, nose, mouth, ears as us. Even the quantity of them is exactly the same.

I am not trying to talk like religious, but even as big as elephant he has the same place and quantiy of those as us too, all of them couldn't be just conincidence.

No religion is better than the other, but the most importantly is to correct our own mind rather than just belief. I believe as long as you contribute to your belief and on the right direction, you can go back to Heaven.

Really tho. I respect every religion out there as long as they do not come to me and try to stuff their beliefs down my throat. I mean, you do what you "gotta" do in your religion, right? Just be respectful of others'.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Tiny, I enjoyed your first post tremendously. I did not know about that about the JW, that they do not believe that Jesus is the son of God. That may be something I'll talk to my gf about since her mom is a JW.

I think people can "spread" their religion, but by this, I mean educate others. In a way, this is what all of you are doing. You guys are teaching me about what you guys believe. Totally fine with me, and I enjoy learning about other religions. You guys are not kicking me down, and pouring oil, errrr, your beliefs down my mouth (sorry, I just watch TFATF again ). Please continue to educate.

And I totally agree with your last sentence. I respect that my gf and them are SDA's, and I don't really have a problem with it, other than the fact that I don't feel that they are respecting me or other people who are not SDA. I mean, come on, they believe that Catholicism is the anti-Christ.

On that note, the Bible says to not be judgmental, right? Then isn't what they're doing, calling Catholicism the "anti-Christ" being judgmental?

Thank you very much Tiny, I appreciate you posting.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I will get back to this a bit later (left off at Tiny's and starting with Detroiter). I have to take my mom out to places (she only gets out when I'm back).

[cali yaris]

I read through some of this, not all, but mostly the first thread with the questions.

My question to the Kaotic's gf etc. mentioned is that I don't see how it's possible to strictly follow the Bible about everything, since it contradicts itself in so many ways. This is not to criticize, but most solutions involve accepting only part of the Bible and not the whole thing (new Christians follow the New Testament, for example).

I would be curious to know what their answer is to that.

The Bible, divinely inspired or not, was written by people and requires deep interpretation to find personal truths reqarding religious belief. Further, that these truths are personal and cannot be just transferred onto someone else in terms of right, wrong, correct behavior, etc.

[cali yaris]

one more thing.... one of my very BEST friends is an Atheist, married to a Fundamentalist Christian wife.

They ADORE each other, married over 10 years -- they simply let each other co-exist on this subject, since they know they will never come to agreement on it.

Encouraging and inspiring, I think!

[Kaotic Lazagna]

hehe, my mom wants to eat first before going out, so on with reading what others have replied.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by detroiter

To keep it as short and as simple has possible, this is what Steven Segal said about religion...and it really does make sense.


"We all trying to get to the same place, just from a different road"




I would say personally, that I am a hybrid religious person. I believe in many Catholic ideals and teachings such as afterlife, etc...but I also believe in Buddhist teachings from the Lotus Sutra. I never once pushed my beliefs on anyone but I'll share them with someone if they are interested in hearing them. I try to promote living a good life and enjoying it, why live a life of torment and unhappiness? There obviously is no such thing as a life without pain or a life of total comfort, but why not live life to the max and enjoy it each day? I used to go to these Buddhist meetings from a branch called the SGI or Sokka Gakkai. Pretty much a Buddhist branch that started in Japan centuries ago and taught from the Lotus Sutra, pretty much what they consider the O.G Shakyamuni's highest teachings.

It's kind of like a dinner buffet. You can take some stuff and leave the stuff you don't want. Yeah I don't agree with 100% of what they teach but the parts like helping others in need, you reap what you sow, etc...there's no harm in taking that knowledge with you. Things like that, everyone can benefit from regardless of religion or non-religion. So I'd say I'm Catholic at heart but with an open mind to what else is around me. My eyes are open and my mind isn't closed. I've always figured too is that why should I fear Jesus and God like so many Christians try to imply is the only way to view them? If they are so loving, which I believe, then you should treat them as best friends. You wouldn't have a best friend that's in your life daily, that your scared of and live in fear of all the time, would you?

Overall, I think everyone should be able to think what they like. I'm sorry that your going through what you are. I don't think that it's really fair to you to be pushed on like that. That's kind of one reason I don't really associate much with anyone from church or things like that because I feel like they are watching me all the time if we are hanging out, judging me on what I do. I want to be able to be myself and have fun without worrying about my every step being watched incase I do something "non Christianlike".

Just be yourself and believe what you believe man...

I'm very much like you.

And exactly, if you believe that your High Power created people, why would He/She/It want us to live in fear? I think I said this already, not sure.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

yeah if you look through all the "stories", the roots of all religions are more or less the same, the 10 commandments, more or less basic guidelines to a successful and peaceful civilization

and all those can be condensed to the even more simple:

"be excellent to each other"

Personally I'm not a religious person. I can understand the reasons for religion, there are times in my life where it would have been good to have the comfort of knowing there's something else beyond this life, some guardian angel or something... And those who cram their beliefs down others throats, I won't even comment on that.

Is there a God, is there not? I'm in no hurry to find out... But like I mentioned before there's just some things in my life that made me go hmmmm,what if?

So, Lazandro, I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, it's gotta be real uncomfortable, people can be truly blinded by faith...

I'm sure there's a passage somewhere in the Bible that says you should respect the beliefs of others... Find it, and what can she say?

I keep bringing that up, and she keeps saying that they're doing their part as being SDA to promote it. Doesn't make sense to me