new (not really) oil from mobil 1, 0w-30 and 0w-20

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

They didn't change their primary recommendation of 5W-30. They just said it's OK to use 5W-20 (which thins out more as it gets hot.)

5W-20 isn't any better in cold weather than 5W-30. They have the same viscosity at 0°F. The 5W-20 thins out more at 210°F than the 5W-30 does.

I use Pennzoil Platinum and found it odd that their 5w-20 had an ACEA rating of A1/B1, but their 5w30 is ACEA rated at A5/B5, which BTW is equal to the Amsoil High Performance 5w30 that I used to use, except the PP gets API approval.

[R2D2]

The TSB SPECIFICALLY LISTS engines that CAN use 5W-20 as genuine Toyota oil moved in this direction. The NZ series is listed. It dosn't say you have to use it.

Mine purrs on 5W-20-no noise issues at all-not that sound has much to do with it.

R2

[1stToyota]

Well, when Toyota gets serious enough to move the 5w30 off of the oil cap & manual and replace it with the words 5w20 I'll get serious about the TSB. And if oil doesn't qualify as a sound issue with a motor I don't know what does.

[R2D2]

Well they haven't taken the GF-3 off the cap either-and GF-3 has been obsolete for many years

My point about the sound is that thicker oils tend to dampen noise better than lighter oils but it is not necessarily an indicator of increased wear. Oils of the same viscosity can also exhibit differences in sound dampening depending on how they are formulated.

At any rate I think the intention of the TSB is quite clear and the NZ series is plainly listed in the 5W-20 column. Warranty wise GF-4 in either 5W-20 or 5W-30 would be fine. I'll try to get Toyota's official take on this next week to clear up the confusion.

R2

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Well they haven't taken the GF-3 off the cap either-and GF-3 has been obsolete for many years

My point about the sound is that thicker oils tend to dampen noise better than lighter oils but it is not necessarily an indicator of increased wear. Oils of the same viscosity can also exhibit differences in sound dampening depending on how they are formulated.

At any rate I think the intention of the TSB is quite clear and the NZ series is plainly listed in the 5W-20 column. Warranty wise GF-4 in either 5W-20 or 5W-30 would be fine. I'll try to get Toyota's official take on this next week to clear up the confusion.

R2

I think it's clear that companies like Ford and Honda have been recommending 5w20 for many years, not just in a TSB, but in their manuals, on their caps and hood labels, so no confusion there.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

I think it's clear that companies like Ford and Honda have been recommending 5w20 for many years, not just in a TSB, but in their manuals, on their caps and hood labels, so no confusion there.

Yes and it would be nice if Toyota would be a little more clear about it-when you buy a 2009 model that still specs GF-3 YEARS after you release a TSB recommending the current spec oil who wouldn't expect some consumer confusion. Plus they are screwing themselves CAFE wise.

R2

[severous01]

if i can find it cheap i'll get with the 20, otherwise i'll get 30.

i had no idea that this would spark a huge debate. i was just wondering about the 0w. i notice it pours like water and is very thin, but then again it's supposed to be. it has anti-bubbling agents and wear protectors in it just like the 30, it has the winter additives just like the 30, but it's just a little thinner at temp.

my main thing was the 0w. so my question has been answered and i appreciate the comments

[DerFlosser]

so were you considering 0w-30 or 5w-20 or 0w-20?

[Altitude]

I just picked up some of the 0w-30 and will keep an eye on the mileage to see if it improves.

[R2D2]

So I called Toyota customer service today and got the mantra about "use what it says on the oil cap"-and got the same from the dealer. Both seemed unaware of the TSB and neither seemed to know why a 2009 MY vehicle would still be specing ILSAC GF-3 and API SL via oil cap. (Neither even appeared to know what to heck I was talking about for that matter).
That TSB is one confusion causing document judging by the similar discussions I've seen elsewhere on the net. I guess the only for sure is to use the 5W-30 at this point.

R2

[Yaris Hilton]

As for oil specifications, there have been a few exceptions in recent years, but the normal presumption has been that successive specifications cover earlier ones, so "GF-3 or better" is how I'd read that. My oil caps don't mention anything except 5W-30.

[DerFlosser]

Originally Posted by R2D2

...I guess the only for sure is to use the 5W-30 at this point.

R2

I assume that you state this as "matter of fact" or are you planning to switch back.

[R2D2]

Yep I agree Yaris-I just don't get the bugle blowing about GF-4 in the TSB then leaving GF-3 on the cap 2 model years afterward.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Jeepers - the TSB says AT THE TOP IN RED OUTLINED BOX NOTICE: ' use the grade that is on your fill cap and in your manual' how more CLEAR do you want? So you just put in a lower grade that can DAMAGE you engine? Even the owners manual recommend THICKER oil for high speed highway and other severe operating conditions to properly lubricate the engine. Going DOWN a grade puts you into - spin a bearing, collapse a skirt territiory. The Title of the TSB is not "substituting 5w-20 for Toyota Engines" its, "ILSAC GF4 Engine Oil Recomendation" - but like we have a choice to buy GF3. Terrible, confusing TSB, toyota better get their act together!

[TheSilkySmooth]

BTW castrol 0w-30 is BS 0W, given it specs more like a 10w-35. The oil does NOT have that great of cold pumpability compared, say, to Castrol Edge. The GC 0w30 is about 60,000 cSt at -40 and the Edge is about 12,000 cSt at -35. BIG difference. This engine wants a low HTHS energy conserving oil, GC is NOT - its TOO thick at 100c at 12+ cSt and its an A3/B3 not an A1/A5. Use the European spec - they make MORE sense - just like the Metric system. Look for A1/A5.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

BTW castrol 0w-30 is BS 0W, given it specs more like a 10w-35. The oil does NOT have that great of cold pumpability compared, say, to Castrol Edge. The GC 0w30 is about 60,000 cSt at -40 and the Edge is about 12,000 cSt at -35. BIG difference. This engine wants a low HTHS energy conserving oil, GC is NOT - its TOO thick at 100c at 12+ cSt and its an A3/B3 not an A1/A5. Use the European spec - they make MORE sense - just like the Metric system. Look for A1/A5.

+1 on GC being too thick for a Yaris-it's nearly 40 wt

R2

[Inspector14]

I have done some research in the last week regarding oil viscosity, looking at cold flow, cold pumping, and viscosity in centistokes.

i took this information from the manufacturer data sheets, from their websites. German castrol is far too thick, i was surprised at its ratings for being a 0w-30. i was also surprised at the viscositiy ratings for what i thought were run of the mill conventional. Pennzoil YB was pretty good, coming in with low numbers like Penn Plat.

i am currently using castrol edge, because i fell for the marketing, i am going to be changing my oil this weekend (wed/thurs for me) to formula shell synthetic 5w-20. it is by far the lowest viscosity 5w-20 i found. with GC coming in at a 60,000 on cold flow properties at -30c, formula shell synthetic (from its datasheet) comes in at -arround 9400 at -35c. thats all i am concerned with.

im going to give it a try. one thing i did learn after comparing everything, is that marketing plays a huge roll, and that whatever you use, it will be just fine. they are all so close together, it makes almost no difference.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Originally Posted by Inspector14

I am currently using castrol edge, because i fell for the marketing, i am going to be changing my oil this weekend (wed/thurs for me) .

Dont fall for the BITOG bull. Edge is a superior oil with stroong ADDS pack and long drain capability and cold flow in the 5w-30 wt close to 0w-20. I would run the 5w-30 edge though - its pretty much a "strong" 20wt. Its also easily good for 7500+/6 mo OCI in any circumstance. Given its cold flow, its majority REAL synthetic base, whereas the Shell is prob a slack wax group iii+ not bad, but not a premium $$ basestock - A good $4/qt oil though. BTW, EDGE is on sale at walmart for 26.50 in my town for 5 qt jugs ($5.30/qt - not bad for a extended drain oil (ACEA A5 that meets corvette spec)