How to ground my Amp on Yaris Hatchback - Page 2 - Toyota Yaris Forums

burttany · 11-03-2009, 04:23 PM

I have my amp under the passenger seat. I put thought I grounded it correctly because I was getting some sparks when it touched the bolt. But for some reason I turn my car on and its not working.

TinyGiant · 11-03-2009, 04:33 PM

blow a fuse?

RUFFSTUFF · 11-03-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burttany

I have my amp under the passenger seat. I put thought I grounded it correctly because I was getting some sparks when it touched the bolt. But for some reason I turn my car on and its not working.

It's not working because it knows you don't know what you're doing...

Good luck!

sqcomp · 11-04-2009, 08:07 AM

Burt,

The proper suggestion would be to remove the negative battery connection before you do any work on the vehicle. The ground to the battery should be the last attached before you start.

talnlnky · 11-04-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Burt,

The proper suggestion would be to remove the negative battery connection before you do any work on the vehicle. The ground to the battery should be the last attached before you start.

i never understood this step... I've heard people say that you should never have a spark when connecting stuff.... cause if you are... there's something wrong, and you can damage equipment.

my issue with claims like this is that 12v will cause the current to arch the gap when you go to connect the last cable. doesn't mean there's anything wrong... just that there is a voltage difference.

yeah... i figure its safer to yank the fuse, or disconnect at the battery.... but that won't stop a spark... it'll just mean the spark will happen in a different place. the safety of it has to do with if you drop a screw driver and as it falls it lands on power and ground cables or terminals on the amp thus becoming a tool that starts welding.

think about it... as soon as the caps inside the amp discharge (into the air) they will instantly draw power the second the ground cable gets an milimeter away from the battery post... thus causing a spark. If the amps is only disconnected for 5 mins the caps might not discharge, and you might not get the spark. However, let them sit for an hour or longer and you will get that spark. Happens every time.

so... if you could explain why I should disconnect the cable at the battery other than to avoid the welder... please share.

TinyGiant · 11-04-2009, 12:26 PM

i think its better to get the spark at the battery than the component you are installing . the surge isnt as close to the fuse which would pop easy.. thats how i always think about it.

RUFFSTUFF · 11-04-2009, 06:23 PM

Not pulling punches here... It is just plain stupid to perform any any electrical wiring with the battery connected. Takes 30 seconds to disconnect the negative cable... The spark here vs. the spark there concept is totally erroneous. The spark at the negative terminal that occurs when reconnecting the battery is not an issue... the spark occurs at a point where current normally flows, and is usually small unless you have a large load that is just waiting for the current path to be restored (NOT A GOOD IDEA). The spark that occurs when you're connecting a piece of equipment and you are too lazy or too stupid to disconnect the battery first, will usually put a large current where you don't want a large current (I.E. A SHORT) ---> fuses blow and or said equipment or something else stops working.

talnlnky · 11-04-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUFFSTUFF

Not pulling punches here... It is just plain stupid to perform any any electrical wiring with the battery connected. Takes 30 seconds to disconnect the negative cable... The spark here vs. the spark there concept is totally erroneous. The spark at the negative terminal that occurs when reconnecting the battery is not an issue... the spark occurs at a point where current normally flows, and is usually small unless you have a large load that is just waiting for the current path to be restored (NOT A GOOD IDEA). The spark that occurs when you're connecting a piece of equipment and you are too lazy or too stupid to disconnect the battery first, will usually put a large current where you don't want a large current (I.E. A SHORT) ---> fuses blow and or said equipment or something else stops working.

I understand the safety issues... I'm arguing semantics here....

what type of load does say a 1,000w Class D amp or a 300watt A/B amp seriously have when it is not turned on... As in, the car is off, they key is not set to ACC, the radio is not turned on... but the battery is still connected.

I mean... shit... a bank of eight 2200uf caps doesn't really constitute a "load" when we are talking about kilowatt systems, 100+ amp fuses, and 4awg & 1/0awg cables.

I really have trouble believing that a short would EVER occur due to this, or that fuses would blow.

I honestly thing all the "car turned off, battery disconnected... yadda yadda yadda was introduced back in the day to prevent people who didn't know what they were doing from burning up cars and killing themselves.

RUFFSTUFF · 11-04-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talnlnky

I understand the safety issues... I'm arguing semantics here....

what type of load does say a 1,000w Class D amp or a 300watt A/B amp seriously have when it is not turned on... As in, the car is off, they key is not set to ACC, the radio is not turned on... but the battery is still connected.

I really have trouble believing that a short would EVER occur due to this, or that fuses would blow.

I honestly thing all the "car turned off, battery disconnected... yadda yadda yadda was introduced back in the day to prevent people who didn't know what they were doing from burning up cars and killing themselves.

Under most circumstances working hot on stereo equipment is not necessary. To bypass the most standard of safety protocols just because you have trouble believing a basic principle, is quite laughable. It takes about 100mA of current to cause death under worst case conditions. Certainly 1A is enough to permanently fry you like bacon. Considering an average car battery can put out 600CCA, the math is not in your favor in the case of a short. Of course, since you're not so good with electrical theory and the possibility of shorts occurring while doing work on live wiring, chances are you also suck at math so I'm probably just wasting my time... No wait... I am certainly wasting my time... nuff said once again.

UNSUBSCRIBE

sqcomp · 11-05-2009, 07:25 AM

Hmmm...

The negativity flows here. Taln is a good standing member here, personal shots aren't needed. Fighting over the internet is sort of stupid anyway.

Let us just disconnect the battery's ground and we'll be all good. Electronics can be very delicate. Mr. Murphy says so.

Math or no math, it is better to do so.

talnlnky · 11-05-2009, 05:48 PM

I know working hot is not necessary... something was said, and I simply challenge somebody to teach me a little about the subject.

I understand that shorts as minimal as say 30milivolts can damage circuitry....

I also understand that you can die from as little as say 250mA of current (to the heart)...
I also know that it is safest to disconnect power when working... i'm not asking about that...
I also know that unless somebody is sitting in a pool of water that a 12V source doesn't have the force to pass even .25Ampere pass the skin. The skin being an amazing insulator.

From the best of my knowledge 42volts was the lowest voltage anybody has died from (yes i understand voltage doesn't kill, its amperage... but without the force/voltage behind amperage it doesn't matter).

A battery could have 2million amps of current potential... unless it has enough voltage to get that current to pass through the insulator (your skin)... it doesn't mean jack. That's why I can place my right hand on one bat terminal.. and my left on the other terminal and I don't turn into a crispy critter on the spot.

Now... back to the real question...What kind of load would can we expect a modest sized A/B amp to put on an electrical system when it is hooked up (and set to be turned off).

And...
Would that draw/load really be realistic to pop say a 50 or even a 25amp fuse.

I'm waiting for your math.

talnlnky · 11-05-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUFFSTUFF

Under most circumstances working hot on stereo equipment is not necessary. To bypass the most standard of safety protocols just because you have trouble believing a basic principle, is quite laughable.

To not address the question at hand because you are too lazy, or ignorant to answer the question (tho not willing to admit it), and would thus rather bash somebody for asking questions is also "quite laughable".

World is in a sad state when people are no longer allowed to ask questions.

sqcomp · 11-06-2009, 03:36 AM

FLAME WAR

Let's get cheering sections going like they have at soccer matches

Slick · 11-06-2009, 08:57 AM

Taln Taln he's our man, if he can't do it, I'm sure someone else can!!!

sqcomp · 11-06-2009, 02:32 PM

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Taln!

...this is so juvenile...

talnlnky · 11-06-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqcomp

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Taln!

...this is so juvenile...

I'm not that kid yelling "fight fight fight" ... *caugh* sqcomp & slick *cough*

But an honest & technical answer from anybody would still be nice.

Slick · 11-06-2009, 10:34 PM

Sorry, I don't know the facts behind hooking up my wires aside from the basics. No problems yet. But I do not have enough info on this particular subject to present any sort of useful tech info :(

Mobius1 · 11-20-2009, 04:13 PM

Battle to the death!

11-03-2009, 04:23 PM	#19
burttany Drives: Yaris Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: LAs Vegas Posts: 2	Same problem I have my amp under the passenger seat. I put thought I grounded it correctly because I was getting some sparks when it touched the bolt. But for some reason I turn my car on and its not working.

11-03-2009, 04:33 PM	#20
TinyGiant Tiny Giant Clothing View User's Garage Drives: 2008 Blazing Blue Yaris 3D LB Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 3,394	blow a fuse? __________________ Sold the yaris... rocking an 89 vw cabriolet now :)

11-04-2009, 08:07 AM	#22
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	Burt, The proper suggestion would be to remove the negative battery connection before you do any work on the vehicle. The ground to the battery should be the last attached before you start. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

11-04-2009, 12:26 PM	#24
TinyGiant Tiny Giant Clothing View User's Garage Drives: 2008 Blazing Blue Yaris 3D LB Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 3,394	i think its better to get the spark at the battery than the component you are installing . the surge isnt as close to the fuse which would pop easy.. thats how i always think about it. __________________ Sold the yaris... rocking an 89 vw cabriolet now :)

11-05-2009, 07:25 AM	#28
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	Hmmm... The negativity flows here. Taln is a good standing member here, personal shots aren't needed. Fighting over the internet is sort of stupid anyway. Let us just disconnect the battery's ground and we'll be all good. Electronics can be very delicate. Mr. Murphy says so. Math or no math, it is better to do so. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

11-04-2009, 06:23 PM	#25
RUFFSTUFF Banned Drives: 2009 TOYOTA YARIS SEDAN Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: KINGSLAND, GA Posts: 381	Not pulling punches here... It is just plain stupid to perform any any electrical wiring with the battery connected. Takes 30 seconds to disconnect the negative cable... The spark here vs. the spark there concept is totally erroneous. The spark at the negative terminal that occurs when reconnecting the battery is not an issue... the spark occurs at a point where current normally flows, and is usually small unless you have a large load that is just waiting for the current path to be restored (NOT A GOOD IDEA). The spark that occurs when you're connecting a piece of equipment and you are too lazy or too stupid to disconnect the battery first, will usually put a large current where you don't want a large current (I.E. A SHORT) ---> fuses blow and or said equipment or something else stops working.

11-05-2009, 05:48 PM	#29
talnlnky Audio Junky Drives: 08 liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Spokane, Wa Posts: 1,412	I know working hot is not necessary... something was said, and I simply challenge somebody to teach me a little about the subject. I understand that shorts as minimal as say 30milivolts can damage circuitry.... I also understand that you can die from as little as say 250mA of current (to the heart)... I also know that it is safest to disconnect power when working... i'm not asking about that... I also know that unless somebody is sitting in a pool of water that a 12V source doesn't have the force to pass even .25Ampere pass the skin. The skin being an amazing insulator. From the best of my knowledge 42volts was the lowest voltage anybody has died from (yes i understand voltage doesn't kill, its amperage... but without the force/voltage behind amperage it doesn't matter). A battery could have 2million amps of current potential... unless it has enough voltage to get that current to pass through the insulator (your skin)... it doesn't mean jack. That's why I can place my right hand on one bat terminal.. and my left on the other terminal and I don't turn into a crispy critter on the spot. Now... back to the real question...What kind of load would can we expect a modest sized A/B amp to put on an electrical system when it is hooked up (and set to be turned off). And... Would that draw/load really be realistic to pop say a 50 or even a 25amp fuse. I'm waiting for your math. __________________

11-06-2009, 03:36 AM	#31
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	FLAME WAR Let's get cheering sections going like they have at soccer matches __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

11-06-2009, 08:57 AM	#32
Slick View User's Garage Drives: '09 3-Dr Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 616	Taln Taln he's our man, if he can't do it, I'm sure someone else can!!! __________________ In a world... where things squeak, wont fit,start to bleed, or are just plain hard to do.... ArmorAll will fix that

11-06-2009, 02:32 PM	#33
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Taln! ...this is so juvenile... __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

11-06-2009, 10:34 PM	#35
Slick View User's Garage Drives: '09 3-Dr Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 616	Sorry, I don't know the facts behind hooking up my wires aside from the basics. No problems yet. But I do not have enough info on this particular subject to present any sort of useful tech info :( __________________ In a world... where things squeak, wont fit,start to bleed, or are just plain hard to do.... ArmorAll will fix that

11-20-2009, 04:13 PM	#36
Mobius1 Installer Drives: 2008 Yaris HB Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 42	Battle to the death!

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