So Long All - Moving On

[jcboy]

Originally Posted by YarisSedan

American cars are good till they start to rack up some miles at that point to that's when the imports outshine them on long term cost of ownership and reliability

^^^this. it's by then you'll start missing your yaris.

[kimona]

Top down fun! Convertibles are cool. Enjoy.

[RedRide]

I don't know where some of you may have been but, American cars are now every bit as good as Japanese cars and even surpass them at times.

Yes, at one time they were garbage but American manufactures heeded the wake up call.

However, the public's perception took a while to change and that's why some needed a loan...... it was not a "bail out" as that false characterization is just a political talking point for certain people. The greedy and irresponsible banks got a "bail out".

Ford and GM now both have a higher market share than Toyota (their closest competitor by far) in the US now that the public has realized how good American cars now are.

I believe that the auto industry would have survived just fine without a government bailout. What the bailout did was reward unions and punish conservatives who owned dealerships. Both GM and Chrysler went bankrupt, even after the bailout. All the US government did was hand over a large share of the stocks to the unions and ignored the rule of law to do it........

That is total a falsehood perpetuated by the foxes and believed by those who have no idea of what really happened and just want to bust the unions wherever they may be.
GM and Chrysler never went "bankrupt, they just did some serious reorganization. "Let them go bankrupt" is just a battle cry code for 'bust the unions".

They also are oblivious to the fact that all the benefits and good working conditions that they now enjoy were fought for and won by labor unions. It's amazing how some can enjoy milk and honey while condemning cows and bees.

They also have no idea how many related jobs the auto industry supports.

What the bailout did was reward unions and punish conservatives who owned dealerships.

Really??
Fact is, because of the loans, the union workers actually took a cut in pay and it kept the dealers in business.
The government rewarded the unions? Really? Any more ridiculous lies you wish to replete?
Is a complete fool who believes everything they are told by the lying RUSHing FOXes.
However It's a wise man who honestly seeks the truth.

Now the US auto industry is thriving .

BTW, I was a member of the UAW (Ford) for over 12 years and I know first hand that Auto workers earn every penny they are paid!
Now....., I never did your job so, how would you feel if I now told you that you are an overpaid moocher who is a burden on the company you work for?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by RedRide

I don't know where some of you may have been but, American cars are now every bit as good as Japanese cars and even surpass them at times.

Yes, at one time they were garbage but American manufactures heeded the wake up call.

However, the public's perception took a while to change and that's why some needed a loan...... it was not a "bail out" as that false characterization is just a political talking point for certain people. The greedy and irresponsible banks got a "bail out".

Ford and GM now both have a higher market share than Toyota (their closest competitor by far) in the US now that the public has realized how good American cars now are.




That is total a falsehood perpetuated by the foxes and believed by those who have no idea of what really happened and just want to bust the unions wherever they may be.
GM and Chrysler never went "bankrupt, they just did some serious reorganization. "Let them go bankrupt" is just a battle cry code for 'bust the unions".

They also are oblivious to the fact that all the benefits and good working conditions that they now enjoy were fought for and won by labor unions. It's amazing how some can enjoy milk and honey while condemning cows and bees.

They also have no idea how many related jobs the auto industry supports.


Really??
Fact is, because of the loans, the union workers actually took a cut in pay and it kept the dealers in business.
The government rewarded the unions? Really? Any more ridiculous lies you wish to replete?
Is a complete fool who believes everything they are told by the lying RUSHing FOXes.
However It's a wise man who honestly seeks the truth.

Now the US auto industry is thriving .

BTW, I was a member of the UAW (Ford) for over 12 years and I know first hand that Auto workers earn every penny they are paid!
Now....., I never did your job so, how would you feel if I now told you that you are an overpaid moocher who is a burden on the company you work for?

1. Some might say that you are using the talking points from a different point of view.

2. You are looking at yourself as a worker. Why are you assuming that the person you are answering is another worker who works for a company? Perhaps he is a business owner (small or not), who isn't guaranteed anything and is taking a chance. Such a person wouldn't find your analogy meaningful. The additional cost per vehicle re the UAW has been calculated by various people. Some people (likely a business owner who in particular circumstances isn't guaranteed anything, and others) might scratch their heads as to why that would be justified when they look at auto plants in Right to Work states in the U.S. (that are not UAW plants) and are producing a quality product.

[nookandcrannycar]

To All :

The link on my post #26 doesn't work (and I don't know how to fix it). I'll try to add it to this post directly below:

http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publi...he-rule-of-law

To RedRide:

[Quote] GM and Chrysler never went "bankrupt, they just did some serious reorganization.[QUOTE)

Incorrect. Bankruptcy can allow for reorganization, but both GM and Chrysler did go through bankruptcy. See the section entitled: The Bankruptcy , from the above link. if the above link doesn't work, the title of the article is: The Auto Bailout and the Rule of Law. It was written by Professor Todd Zywicki and is located on national affairs.com

The government rewarded the unions? Really? Any more ridiculous lies you wish to replete?
Is a complete fool who believes everything they are told by the lying RUSHing FOXes.
However It's a wise man who honestly seeks the truth.

Yes, the UAW was unjustly rewarded. See the last two sentences of paragraph three under the section 'The Bankruptcy' in Professor Zywicki's article. In the Chrysler case, the SECURED bondholders received 29 cents on the dollar and the UAW Pension Plans -- who were UNSECURED creditors, but possessed better political connections -- received more than 40 cents on the dollar. I would contend that it is wise to include an example using FACTS (as I just did), rather than a random demonization of popular targets that are on the opposite side/side that you disagree with. If you read Professor Zywicki's article, you will see that he cites references...and they aren't Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

[RedRide]

Oh yeah.... almost forgot. Enjoy your Camero Serious.

BTW,.... to no one in particular.......All modern mainstream cars, no matter where they are assembled, are all made with parts manufactured in many different countries .

So, there is no longer any such thing as an all American or all Japanese car, They are all a conglomeration of international parts to one extent or another.

[RedRide]

Yes, the UAW was treated just like any other bond holder....however, the UAW bonds were/are used to help finance worker pensions so, they got a somewhat higher pay out. Some want them (the innocent workers) to be discriminated against and their pensions demolished?

BTW, the UAW also represent many workers who build machinery and other vehicles other than car and trucks.
These would include things like tractors and other agriculture machinery, and military vehicles, etc that have nothing to do with GM and Chrysler.

Now..... as far as bankruptcy.. ...for that to have actually happened, private investors would of had to step in with cash to prevent the total liquidation of the companies involved. That never happened. Those are the facts and are a matter of public record .

So,as the last resort, to prevent the liquidation and total demise of Chrysler and GM, the government stepped in and offered loans on the conditions that they reorganize.
The government wisely did not want GM and Chrysler to cease to exist as that would have been an economic disaster for the country and it's manufacturing base.
True bankruptcy without adequate financial backers a totally different animal. It appears that some have little understanding of the laws and/or consequences involve.
Corporate chapter 11 is vastly different than personal bankruptcy.
Most companies that survive chapter 11 are those that also have private investors stepping in, hoping to profit from their investment at a later date.

Also, the fact remains that the UAW/workers agreed to a pay cut to keep the companies alive. This is also a matter of public record.

One can find problems with any government program or agency and a negative spin can be put on anything/anyone to make it look bad...... that is a a given. However, all negative spin on this issues comes down to union/worker bashing as it's root motivation.
Have we as a country become so depraved that we no longer value honest labor with a fair wage paid for it?
The great industrialist and auto manufacturer Henry Ford comes to mind as one who really understood the true value of his labor force and paying a fair wage.

As the saying goes, "you can't please all of the people all the time" and this is certainly true with any corporate restructuring or, particularly with bankruptcy. Some will always loose more than others. If true bankruptcy was in involved with GM and Chrysler, the biggest losers would have lost even more ..... not to mention the thousands who would have lost their jobs that were unrelated to the auto industry.

Yes, some creditors lost big as the companies were not liquidated and demolished to pay them. This was the was the price of preserving the US auto industry and manufacturing base.

Where is the outrage for the Banks bail out (due to bad Bank management) which was an outright gift from the taxpayers? The incompetent bank CEOs even gave themselves higher multi million dollar bonuses after the bail out ....all at taxpayer's expense. They never paid back a penny or were they required to. Only the blind can't see pure blatant corporate greed here but, all some want to do is bash innocent auto workers who took a pay CUT.

In the end, the GM/Chrysler loans will not cost the taxpayer anything. What some are still up in arms about is that the UAW still exists.

The facts are still out there for those who seek the truth .

BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to explain how keeping GM and Chrysler alive was bad for the GM and Chrysler dealers. Did they prefer to sell and service weed wackers?

[fybur]

Woah. Can we calm down from this political/economical arguement.

The OP made this thread just to say goodbye and show what his new car will be.

Why some have gotten in to this debate is past me.

If you want to continue this debate just PM each other !!!

[RedRide]

^ ^ ^

Your proof is?
BTW, I would wager that the majority of all major car dealers are republicans

I take comfort that the facts are on my side and I do not have to prove what is in the public record.
If you think that I am going to argue that 2+2 = 4 you are mistaken . I graduated grade school many decades ago.

I said what needed to be said as a member of the UAW and someone who always seeks the truth.
This thread will be closed soon as you blatantly brought partisan politics into it
For those who seek the truth, I commend you.
For those who choose to stay ignorant, I pity you and all the innocent people you will accuse and condemn in your life time.

[screenprintr]

If I could afford the tickets, I'd drive the Camaro in a Heart beat. One of the towns I have to drive through is a Speed trap. Even if you look at the cop crosseyed they'll follow you all the way home or at least to the border.

Nice car.

[thebarber]

I like camaros

[DeathBeard]

Nice car congratulations

[RedRide]

To be honest, I was never into GM but....... GM has come a long way recently and the Camero is a great looking car with great reviews.

[Astroman]

I've seriously had enough of this crap. We have a political thread where anyone can spew their political diarrhea. This is not that section. My apologies to the OP, I know you just wanted to share you're new set of wheels with us, and I really like it and glad your Yaris is staying in the family, but once the politics get out of hand and a few start resorting to "liberal BS", slamming unions and the president and insulting other members I've had enough.

I was there when Yarisworld almost got tore apart in 2008, so I'm putting a stop to this and one member who received a warning proceeded to argue with me and keep posting negative political nonsense ramblings so they got a one week ban and I'm now forced to lock this thread.

Sorry everyone, but it's usually one who ruins it for the rest.

Please, remember to be respectful of one another ok?