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10-25-2009, 02:34 AM | #37 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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Thanks Craig! When 0W-10 goes mainstream the price will come down :)
1st, Where's the love-thin is in! When the 20's went mainstream circa 2k many (including myself) cried foul. How dare they sacrifice longevity to help CAFE scores?! Guess what-they worked great! The Euros are lagging a little behind but are heading in this direction also. The TDI is running 5W-30 now! Here's a little light reading about viscosity : http://yarisworld.com/forums/showpos...=363921&post=7 Check out Dr Haas Lambo UOA on BITOG with 0W-20 and G Allen's 4.0 Jeep on 0W-10!
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"The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One Last edited by R2D2; 10-25-2009 at 03:35 AM. Reason: Addition |
10-26-2009, 08:49 AM | #38 |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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R2D2,
Because I think we're just more worried about fuel economy and less worried about longevity. Most of the European oil recommendations that I come across are more heavily swayed by ambient temperatures. I was hoping you had it in mind to do a UOA on your 5w20, first, before you switched to 0w20 to see how they compared. I'm not yet convinced that thin is in when thicker is still being listed as the oil to use in service manuals, owner's manuals and the oil cap, and the thinner oil listed on a 3 year old TSB is still left more as the afterthought. Just for grins I'll probably not do my 2nd UOA on the Pennzoil YB 5w30, I'll probably test PP 5w20 against PP 5w30, w/o use of the filtermag, of course...still won't trust 0w20 as it's still not listed as suitable oil to use for our Yaris in any service manual, owner's manual or TSB, yet. EDIT: Or better yet, I'd test my PP 5w30 against a 0w30, if you or somebody else could recommend a really good synthetic 0w30 to use... Looks like it'll be Mobil 1 0w30 vs. Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 With winter coming soon looks like my first UOA will be the 0w30 :)
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1997 Lincoln Town Car - SOLD 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD Last edited by 1stToyota; 10-26-2009 at 01:03 PM. Reason: AutoZone made a sale |
10-26-2009, 01:01 PM | #39 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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1st,
I'm not sampling the 5W-20 because it will only have 2k on it when I drain it (car will only have 5k total). I did changes at 1k, 3k and will put the RLI in at 5k. I wanted to get through most of the break-in period before a 5k run of the RLI 0W-20 during the harshest operational period of my year. The analysis will be by Terry Dyson and he's the best in the biz so he will know if it isn't optimal. Terry seeks perfection and if I can get better results with another visc or product he will let me know. I had him do a read on my wife's Rogue and he will leave no automotive stone unturned to get you the best results for your application-and most would have been thrilled with the results I was already getting. So I'm with you on the longevity issue-I just think people sometimes give oil thickness too much credit and not enough to flow rate. But, that's why I'm hiring Terry-he will take all the guess work out of it. As far as recommending a 0W-30 they tend to be expensive and a little harder to come by. Mobil 1 is the cheapest, easiest to come by ($22 for 5 qts at WM)-I've not been a Mobil 1 fan for the last several years but it has done very well in the few Yaris/M1 UOAs that I've seen. My choices would be RLI, Redline, Amsoil SSO and GC (can be found at Autozone stores for about $7 a qt last I checked). Only the M1 and GC are API certified though, if that matters to you. The Platinum you mentioned is an excellent oil at a fantastic price-either the 5W-30 or the 5W-20 would probably take most as far as they cared to drive their Yaris, in reality. I've recommended it often to people who want a solid, locally available oil without breaking the bank. Based on the Yarii oil analysis reports I have seen (admittedly mostly 30 wts) they tend to be fairly easy on their oil and non-fussy to boot. I'd be very interested in your results which ever oils you decide to test. What lab do you use? Stay tuned-but I'm going to need at least 6 months to get 5k on this RLI run. R2 |
10-26-2009, 02:02 PM | #40 |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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I don't know why I was thinking your Yaris was about out of warranty
I guess I just assumed it was nearly out of warranty and you decided it was time to switch to 0w20 API is kinda important to me, and AutoZone had the Mobil 1 0w-30 for $6.95, so I bought 4 Blackstone labs will be doing both of my UOAs If Mobil 1 tests out better than the PP 5w-30 I'll shop for it at WalMart next time. |
10-26-2009, 08:27 PM | #41 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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The Blackstone folks are great-exceptional customer service. They helped me out with a special need testing situation a while back on a HD rear axle.
My hunch is the M1 will do quite well in this app. Is it the new green cap AFE? |
10-27-2009, 08:35 AM | #42 | |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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Quote:
I'm hoping the M1 does well, if not I'll stick with the $3.95 PP :) |
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10-27-2009, 09:26 AM | #43 |
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 622
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I just had to dump Castrol 5w30 syntec BC the engine was so noisy that i though it was gonna blow. I have Rotella T 10w30 CJ4 in there now, and this is the BEST overall conventional oil ive used in the past 5 years - actually the only satisfactory one. Alot of our engines have different needs and mine will absolutely not tolerate light grade oil. Toyota recommends heavier oil (5w40, 10w40 for severe service, high speed driving and towing) in my owners manual not lighter. Since I drive hard, I will need the heavier oil to survive. I dont like engines that clak and tick and clang and dont rev hard to redline. With the thicker oil they are dead quiet and smooth and will have less crankcase fuel dilution - important with E10 "gasohol" usage. Just my dos centavos
P.S: Why does the TSB say in the Red box at the beginning of the TSB to "Use the oil grade on your fill cap" then say somewhere else you can use something else - If I had a warranty issue on 20wt oil - I would be afraid they'd deny due to wrong weight. Untill they send ME a supplement to my owners manual I would never run 20wt - the TSB are not for consumer/customer dissemination, only for dealer use. |
10-27-2009, 09:52 AM | #44 |
Our off road vehicle
Drives: 2009 Yaris 3dr Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 198
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I wonder what the mpg differential is using the 5-20 versus the 5-30? Any one know?
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10-27-2009, 03:13 PM | #45 | |
Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback (auto.) Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 3
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Quote:
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10-27-2009, 07:19 PM | #46 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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Ecomodder is a cool place-I find myself lurking there quite often!
R2 |
10-27-2009, 09:17 PM | #47 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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Silky,
With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :) I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? My Yaris is a little noisy when "cold" but is very quiet when fully warmed up and the oil is at it's "thinnest". I have always used 20 wt so far and have heard rumors the factory fill was a 20 also (I have no proof for this yet). Engine loves to rev but rarely gets to as I putt around and gawk at my ecometer! The Rotella is a nice oil but would make me uneasy during a NH winter! Sure, I think it will start fine but it may (rather loudly) protest. Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know! R2 |
10-29-2009, 08:13 AM | #48 | |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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Quote:
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1997 Lincoln Town Car - SOLD 2008 Scion xD (w/ automatic) - SOLD 2008 Yaris HB - SOLD Last edited by 1stToyota; 10-29-2009 at 08:24 AM. |
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10-29-2009, 05:38 PM | #49 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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1st,
You got me thinking about sampling the 5W-20 I've currently got in the car. It will only have about 2k on it but I still think it would be interesting to see. I've got a Schaeffer sample kit here (no TBN but its only 2k). I think I will sample it just as a starting point but honestly even if it doesn't look great I won't be concerned because the engine is so young. Should happen early next week. R2 |
11-04-2009, 08:59 AM | #50 | |
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 622
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Quote:
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11-13-2009, 09:42 AM | #51 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
|
1st,
I have the report back on the last (short!) 5W-20 fill from the Yaris. 2009 Yaris 1.5 L Oil was Schaeffer's 7000 5W-20 with 1871 miles on it and 4974 on the car total at time of sample. Analysis by Schaeffer. Copper - 3 Iron. - 7 Cromium- 0 Alum. - 7 Lead. - 0 Moly. - 329 Phos. - 963 Zinc. - 1115 Magnes. - 294 Calcium. - 2095 Sodium. - 8 Potass. - 3 Silicon. - 20 Antifreeze, water, fuel all nil. Visc @ 100C. 8.07 (20 wt) Oxidation % allowed 0 Nitration % allowed. 6 Looks good for such a young engine IMO. The next sample will be much more informative but we at least know nothing disastrous is going on. R2 |
11-13-2009, 04:27 PM | #52 |
Drives: '07 Yaris, '12 GLI Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 100
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R2, are you going to post this on BITOG or can I?
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11-13-2009, 06:42 PM | #53 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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Craig,
Yeah I'll post soon. I'll probably get hammered for changing it so soon but I like to get the break in metals out of there so I usually do several short fills early on. I also forgot to mention this was a 3.5 qt fill with 7 oz of LC20 at time oil was installed + 2 oz at the 1k mark. Just wanted a peek at what was going on after 1st Toyota got me thinking about it. |
11-14-2009, 08:36 PM | #54 |
Banned
Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 189
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If you are going for longevity for your engine, if you want it to last an absolute long time, then use 0w-20. Using 0w-20 will allow the engine to last longer then if you ran heavier oil.
This is because the lighter oil protects better during the time the engine wears the most: First 5-10 minutes of running after the first start in the morning. At operational temperatures, there is a teeny tiny insignificant difference in engine wear between 20 and 30 and 40. What kills engines is NOT running them at 212F on the freeway...what kills them is running the engines cold because cold means 10w-30 runs thicker then 0w-20 which means it circulates to the top and around all the internal engine parts SLOWER then 0w-20, and means more wear during the time engines wear the fastest: first 5-10 minutes of running for the day. If you really know oil, understand how it works, you will see this is true. If you don't understand, you will have this dillusion that thicker protects better. The only time you want to run the really thick stuff (40 weight for example) is if you are running hard, fast (racing or uphill under termendous load), and for long periods of time, in very hot weather. But for most of us, this is the exception and not the rule. If you want your engine to last it's absolute longest, go 20 weight over 30 or heavier. |
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