Swapping ECU's?

[rob323]

Originally Posted by RacerFreakXXX

Well I guess having patience is all we can do now. I guess one step at a time and maybe one day someone will crack this ecu.

Don't hold your breath, my Echo is 11 years old an no-one has cracked it's ecu yet to my knowledge, Jet claim to have done so but won't provide me with any real evidence to back up their claim.

Originally Posted by cdydjded

This unit is made by APR. It was originally made for the 4.0 Toyota trucks with S/C. Dezod & APR join together & with some internal modifications they got it to work on the TC. Dezod also got it to work on the xB2. The box itself is kind of universal but requires a jumper harness to connect to our ECU. Right now we are at the point of testing it on the Yaris.

Want an Echo ecu to test it on as well?

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

IMO this is more than most people can handle.

I totally agree. The current iteration of the DIYEFI is quite basic and only meant for super gurus... But this could be the basis for totally customized ECUs down the road... It's all a question of time really...

[CarBob08]

I really like the idea of the DIYEFI, fully custom is nice, but as many folks have said, it may be too much for the average Yari' fan.

[Dezod]

Ok. I do not get on this board too often, however let me enlighten those whom are unfamiliar with the Allan Phillips Racing systems.

The unit is an In-Line ECU. It is not a piggyback, and is not a standalone. It has properties of both and I will explain how and a lot of the cool functions it has to offer.

First, it has full closed loop and open loop fuel control. Most piggybacks do not offer both like the E-manage Ultimate, E-manage, S-AFC, Neo, FIC.....These unit s struggle (at best) to control the AFRs well and tightly around the stock ECU's strategy. The APR X1 does it flawlessly (if programmed properly). There is no pulse widths to enter like a standalone. There is no duty cycles to enter. There is no BS. Just enter the target AFR based upon load and engine RPM and be done with it. The tighter your injector transfer function is, the tighter the AFR control will be. The thing is SUPER accurate and provides mounds to data for easy tuning and no guess work.

Secondly, ignition timing is more like a piggyback in the fact that it lets the stock ECU make the final call for what it determines as far as spark advance. Your Spark Base table tune (allowing for both advance and/or retard) will provide an additional figure below or over the stock value. For example, say the stock ECU wanted 20 degrees at WOT, and you wanted 25, simply add +5 in those cells and be done. A negative 5 would yield 15 degrees of advance. This makes it easy and eliminates all of the guess work involved with ignition timing.

You can also alter the top speed, rev limiter, you get 2 step launch control, still works with ALL factory keys, accessories and such like a stock car. The OBD2 port is still active for emissions purposes for those of you whom have emissions in your area (unlike a standalone). All trouble codes are still active and in use too.

The real benefit of a unit like the APR is that is uses all of Toyo's millions of dollars of invested time and equipment to your advantage. Toyo spent countless man hours developing ECU fuel and ignition mapping strategies that you can now use to your advantage using the unit like the APR. The fact that you can custom sculpt a fuel curve and ignition curve with minimal effort and supreme accuracy is second to none.

If you become proficient with the APR unit, you do not even need a dyno to tune it. You can view the super sophisticated datalogging, make changes and see the air flow difference from one pull to the next. It doesn't get any better than that. Same deal for ignition timing too. You can see where knock occurs and when the stock ECU pulls out timing, and adjust accordingly. No fussing with custom knock curves and such.

I have tuned plenty of standalones and owned a complete standalone Lexus IS300 that we did with an AEM EMS, and this APR is second to none. The amount of data you can get and have from pull to pull, you don't even want to touch another system. My current DD has a custom APR on it, and it's an xB2. I love the darn thing! No cold start adjustments, no start extra fuel decay maps, no prolonged stat sync starts....Just turn key and go.

I will entertain and all questions regarding this unit and post datalogs and shots of the software to show that this unit is the future of modding Toyos.

[rob323]

Dezod, a couple of quick ones for you if you can spare the time please.
Can you have full control over the variable cam timing?
Can you convert it to run on speed density or map sensed?
Assuming I run some nice large duration cams with bugger all vacuum at idle, is it capable of accommodating that?

By the way, these questions are all related to using it on an Echo, whether that makes things easier or harder, I don't know.

[Dezod]

Originally Posted by rob323

Dezod, a couple of quick ones for you if you can spare the time please.
Can you have full control over the variable cam timing?
Can you convert it to run on speed density or map sensed?
Assuming I run some nice large duration cams with bugger all vacuum at idle, is it capable of accommodating that?

By the way, these questions are all related to using it on an Echo, whether that makes things easier or harder, I don't know.

No control over VVT. To be honest, we offered it in the AEM EMS we did for the Scion tC. Most people did not take the cumbersome efforts of tuning it, so it was left by the way side. The ARP lets the stock control it, which works just fine as it does a good job (not the best) in controlling it.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO RUN SPEED DENSITY!?!?! You are out of your mind if you want to do this! Use the MAF as the APR was designed to do. The MAF is MUCH more accurate and provides baro change correct, temp and humidity correction all in one. With MAP (Speed density) you must do that on your own. Stick with the MAF, use it's accuracy and be done with it. (also, don't worry about maxing it out, if you do you can run a GM 650g/s^2 MAF with the APR or even twin MAFs!) Take the 3D modeling of air and enjoy.

As far as cams, we've done 264s on the 2AZ tC without issues at all. We are now about to do some 280/272s to see what's up. I would not be concerned with cams and this unit at all. We've even run 850cc injectors too. No problems there either.

[rob323]

Originally Posted by Dezod

No control over VVT. To be honest, we offered it in the AEM EMS we did for the Scion tC. Most people did not take the cumbersome efforts of tuning it, so it was left by the way side. The ARP lets the stock control it, which works just fine as it does a good job (not the best) in controlling it.

Understandable, but I guess most people wouldn't have access to a free engine dyno .

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO RUN SPEED DENSITY!?!?! .......Use the MAF as the APR was designed to do. The MAF is MUCH more accurate and provides baro change correct, temp and humidity correction all in one. With MAP (Speed density) you must do that on your own. Stick with the MAF, use it's accuracy and be done with it. (also, don't worry about maxing it out, if you do you can run a GM 650g/s^2 MAF with the APR or even twin MAFs!) Take the 3D modeling of air and enjoy.

A hang over from my Mitsubishi days I guess (ECMlink), but the reason for my question was because down the track I see itb's in my future. To run the maf, I'll need to build a plenum for them (which is probably what will happen anyway). It's good to know that I'm not stuck with the stock maf at least.

You are out of your mind if you want to do this!

I'm not going to debate that, afterall I did build an Echo rally car.

As far as cams, we've done 264s on the 2AZ tC without issues at all. We are now about to do some 280/272s to see what's up. I would not be concerned with cams and this unit at all. We've even run 850cc injectors too. No problems there either.

Please let me know how the 280's go. Does the lack of airflow across the maf at idle cause any problems or can that be compensated for?

Thanks for the replies Dezod.

Cheers,
Rob.

[cali yaris]

Dezod,

Great info as always and thanks for posting.

Is the APR actively being tested/configured for a Toyota Yaris at this time?

[Dezod]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Dezod,

Great info as always and thanks for posting.

Is the APR actively being tested/configured for a Toyota Yaris at this time?

We have one just about ready, and are just waiting on payment from someone.

[Dezod]

If there are any more questions on this wonderful unit, I will gladly answer them.

[Dezod]

Some pics!

[H3LlIoN]

I'd be excited to see the dezod unit, especially since last month I was hearing about how it was never going to happen for the 1nz. I just hope this doesn't turn out like the bolt on turbo kit fiasco.

[Dezod]

Originally Posted by H3LlIoN

I'd be excited to see the dezod unit, especially since last month I was hearing about how it was never going to happen for the 1nz. I just hope this doesn't turn out like the bolt on turbo kit fiasco.

Well again, it all boils down to demand. A turbo kit (to do it right) encompasses a lot of cash outlay to put units on the shelf and such. Just to put the point home, if we had taken the same approach as we did with the tC kit, where we put 100 units of downpipes and intercoolerpipes on the shelf, we'd be up poop's creek in this market. The tC market embraced our enthusiasm and bought it all and then some many times over.

I guess the point I am driving at here is demand. There needs to be people wanting and buying a product for it to exist. It must be a profitable venture for a company to undertake the challenge.

The engine management deal, can be done on a one or two unit basis, therefore requires virtually minimal cash outlay therefore offering a better change of existence to the market.

[lilredrocket]

Seems like it would make it easier for the people that just want to use only bolt os but want more power. If it makes it that easy to street tune (safely)

[Dezod]

Originally Posted by lilredrocket

Seems like it would make it easier for the people that just want to use only bolt os but want more power. If it makes it that easy to street tune (safely)

This unit allows for turbo, S/C and N/A tuning with no problems!

[Dezod]

Update! We now have successfully gotten the APR unit running on a stock 2009 Yaris S. The unit will be available by special order for the Yaris. Please call us to order.

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by Dezod

Update! We now have successfully gotten the APR unit running on a stock 2009 Yaris S. The unit will be available by special order for the Yaris. Please call us to order.

This sounds promising. What are the expected gains on a NA Yaris?

[Dezod]

Originally Posted by tk-421

This sounds promising. What are the expected gains on a NA Yaris?

Contingent upon supporting mods, tuning and fuel chosen.