Federal Govt. expecting shutdown on APRIL 9TH

[Yaristeve]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Why should government workers not suffer the same fate as private sector workers? Why does the government not run like a business? The answer comes down to votes! You are not going to vote out of office the person who keeps you employed even though they are destroying the private sector.....

Let me ask you this: when time are good why shouldn't government workers enjoy the same benefits as private sector workers? I've never heard anyone ever say, "Times are good, let's give the government workers bonuses, perks, and raises just like us!!" No, generally, it is, "Well, they chose to work in government because they want a stable job when times are bad. That is the trade-off they signed up for so they don't deserve bonuses, perks, or raises."

Well, times are bad and so it is time to collect our "perk"...

[STC]

I want to know 'who' makes all this money?

What is the end cost to 'you' no matter what your belief is: private or public sector? You know in the end we (lower and middle income class) have to pay for it in terms of a hidden inflationary tax when 'who' prints the excess of dollar bills in our economy and world economy. 'Who' is leveraging this on our poor souls? 'Who' is creating this modern serdom? The 'who' is not public or private.. it is the system of monetary control.

Cheers!

[Shinare]

Originally Posted by Yaristeve

Let me ask you this: when time are good why shouldn't government workers enjoy the same benefits as private sector workers? I've never heard anyone ever say, "Times are good, let's give the government workers bonuses, perks, and raises just like us!!" No, generally, it is, "Well, they chose to work in government because they want a stable job when times are bad. That is the trade-off they signed up for so they don't deserve bonuses, perks, or raises."

Well, times are bad and so it is time to collect our "perk"...

Heh, I like how you put that... "Perk". :)

My perk has been that in the 9 years I have worked for the state, the legislature has voted a pay raise for state employees a whopping 3 times at between 2 and 4%. So while everyone else's paychecks are going up, ours are going down because of higher insurance rates and higher cost of living increases. (such as higher cost of food, gas etc.) Because of higher insurance rates my paycheck LITERALLY gets smaller every year, not just in relation to cost of living, but actual dollars and cents.

And yes, that's right, we have to be VOTED in a raise, we don't get one every year just because cost of living increases or even if we do an exemplary job. Do you think the legislature is going to vote us a raise when we are already cutting jobs due to payroll shortfalls. (funny tho, isn't it, that the legislature never fails to vote THEMSELVES a raise every stinking year)

*sigh* there really is no "perk" to working for the state anymore. When I started we had some of the lowest insurance costs around, and many, now gone, benefits. The only thing we still get is 3 weeks vacation per year, and if you think you can be gone that much without worrying about having a job when you get back, think again.

[DevilGirl]

Originally Posted by TRDMarty

I wish the government would have shut down for at least 1 day.
For the 1 day they wouldn't have been able to spend any more money!!

Originally Posted by JumpmanYaris

What type of work you do? You must not have a gov. job

For the govt to shut down, it would actually cost more money.

In a govt shutdown, there are quite a lot of agencies that are still running and the employees still have to report to work, but not get paid, and that's because they are "essential," such as making sure SSA recipients get their paychecks, which in most cases is their sole source of income, and not that great to begin with.

My job is one of those. Which means I would still need to commute the 2.5 hours each way, an hour of which is driving. So there's gas to put in my car, tolls to pay for, a train ticket to pay for. All for what? To not get paid?

Then of course, take into consideration all the support staff (contractors) that are needed to keep the building open for us employees to work that aren't getting paid. The cost of electricity to run the building for those shutdown days, etc.

So in reality, a shutdown is the last thing you want to have happen.

[JumpmanYaris]

You mean to tell me you still have to do what you normaly do with out the pay

F^$# this man I rather go work in a strip club, Ill get a kick out of that and still get money lol

[Shinare]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Your state is $17,254,404,041 in debt (http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...a_state_budget). You are # 2 in the nation. California is # 1. Yes you state has a budget & it clearly based on the amount of debt it is in means absolutely nothing. Im a small business owner. My budget is met every month or bills dont get paid & my employees go home with out a paycheck. You state budget get blown out of the water & either it raises taxes or borrows more money it cannot repay. Reasons are many why you were "barely squeaking by". Things like pensions which are unsustainable & out of control wages. Example:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...eral-pay_N.htm

*sigh* I guess I don't understand what you are trying to argue. You stated that govt. jobs are not affected by the recession. I've given you specific examples of how they are including the laying off of people where I work due to not having the funding due to the recession as well as furloughs for the rest of us. *shrug* Believe what you want but govt jobs are not the golden parachute you seem to think they are.

[frownonfun]

the fact of the matter is shinare and others like him/her who are just going to work trying to earn a living aren't the ones who are the problem here. don't see what good can come out of demonizing gov employees. nor is there much good in trying to demonize those in the private sector. we are all worker bees fighting amongst ourselves when we should be fighting those who get us into these types of situations. the people on the top who own every thing and those in the government who enable them to do so. the country and it's states are in debt because somewhere, someplace, a select few are raking it all in. there's a recession alright, among the working class. But don't be fooled into thinking it goes any further than that.

then again i've been drinking so what do i know.

[STC]

Originally Posted by frownonfun

the fact of the matter is shinare and others like him/her who are just going to work trying to earn a living aren't the ones who are the problem here. don't see what good can come out of demonizing gov employees. nor is there much good in trying to demonize those in the private sector. we are all worker bees fighting amongst ourselves when we should be fighting those who get us into these types of situations. the people on the top who own every thing and those in the government who enable them to do so. the country and it's states are in debt because somewhere, someplace, a select few are raking it all in. there's a recession alright, among the working class. But don't be fooled into thinking it goes any further than that.

then again i've been drinking so what do i know.

Exactly... it is those who control the medium of exhange and the monetary rates that are getting us into these types of situations. Your last sentence I have to disagree. You actually know more than you think.

Cheers!

[TLyttle]

Gee, even as an outsider it isn't too hard to see where the cash is going! It is going into million-dollar bombs and multi-million-dollar machines to drop them. How long has the US been in Afghanistan? Iraq? Rather than spend tax dollars on the American Citizen, it is much better to support the War Machine, where is the logic to that? Why is it that one can generate (won't say "earn") a billion dollars, and pay no taxes on such a huge, unusable, amount of money? Don't eat that stuff about "creating jobs" Elmer, that is just plain organic fertilizer. No doubt there are some repairs required to the US system of Government, but that ain't likely to happen anytime soon...

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Gee, even as an outsider it isn't too hard to see where the cash is going! It is going into million-dollar bombs and multi-million-dollar machines to drop them. How long has the US been in Afghanistan? Iraq? Rather than spend tax dollars on the American Citizen, it is much better to support the War Machine, where is the logic to that? Why is it that one can generate (won't say "earn") a billion dollars, and pay no taxes on such a huge, unusable, amount of money? Don't eat that stuff about "creating jobs" Elmer, that is just plain organic fertilizer. No doubt there are some repairs required to the US system of Government, but that ain't likely to happen anytime soon...

Often, people in any county can't see the forest for the trees.
The above is correct of course for the most part.
Most often the people who are standing to close to the tress in the US falsely claim that Reagen caused the collaspe of the USSR.
The fact is the USSR collapsed becase of massive bankruptcy due to excessive military spending.

Also, a company hires new employees soley because they absolutly have to due to increases business because the masses have more money to spend.
It is never because the companys have reduced taxes!
No company hires a new worker they do not need.
Any company will galdly hire more workers to meet demand (to make more money) no matter what their taxes may be. Anyone one claiming otherwise is not seated in reality.

[frownonfun]

Originally Posted by RedRide

Also, a company hires new employees soley because they absolutly have to due to increases business because the masses have more money to spend.
It is never because the companys have reduced taxes!
No company hires a new worker they do not need.
Any company will galdly hire more workers to meet demand (to make more money) no matter what their taxes may be. Anyone one claiming otherwise is not seated in reality.

THANK YOU!!

If a company can make just as much with 2 employees as they can with 3 then they are going to do it with 2. No matter how many tax cuts you give them this will never change.

This seems like about as simple a concept as gravity.

[nemelek]

My wife was a city goverment worker for 28 years. She never got laid off and had a few promotions. I used to say that her worse day on the job was better than my best day. She was able to make maxium retirement contributions and now enjoys not working.

[frownonfun]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

Im glad that this has been a civil debate without insults.Its rare that a political conversation doesnt end with "you are an asshole". My point is this, yes we are all worker bees, yes there has been some layoffs from both sectors. But I find it amazing the following:
the majority of layoff are in the private sector
the majority of hiring is happening in the public sector
public sector employee expects a raise every year
public sector employee expects a pension

We, the USA have a spending problem. Here is a fact, the President want a cradle to grave society, which means the government is that answer to everything. Here is another fact, in 2001 the budget for the government was $1.8 trillion, it is $4.8 Trillion today. Thats a $3 trillon difference. What has that $3 TRILLION given us? Are kids smarter? Are schools better? Are we healthier? Is the air cleaner? Are we safer? Are we more prosperous? If you answered yes to any of my question, well lets just say you dont have a grasp on what really going. The answer is no to all my questions

So how can a bigger government be in any way better? It cant, period. Government has a place, Im not saying it should be completely shut down. Im just saying limited government is all we need. And right now its moving in the unlimited direction.....

I agree that I cannot answer yes to any of those questions. But I don't blame bigger government necessarily. I blame the misuse of resources. No matter the size of the government if they are mishandling all their resources and putting priority towards things that were never intended to receive such attention then it's going to create problems. No matter how small they get they are still the governing body of the US. And if they are out to serve the interests of the elite and vice versa then we, as normal everyday people, will always lose.

It's funny, despite some social issues, the average blue coller conservative and liberal have much in common. We both feel like we are getting dicked. And that's because we are. Just not by each other. We really gotta find a way to find some common ground.

If you ask me even if we are only 2 dollars in debt, if we spent that 2 dollars in a way that wasn't intended by the american people (and instead was spent appeasing some corporation's lobbying firm) then we've lost any real form of democracy.

[SilverBack]

Originally Posted by cdydjded

If we had that mentality during WWII the east coast would be talking German & the west coast would be talking Japanese. The most powerful tool we have is our vote.

Judging by the way things were back then, I would think people actually wanted to vote because changes did seem to happen quicker as a result. And also your reference is about official wars between countries (not "US vs. Insert-terrorist's-name-here") that happened which happen to boost our economy by the end. What we have nowadays is expensive jokes we threw all our money away in Iraq and Afghanistan, while we struggling workers and students at home still try to scrape-by (my tuition just increased, but yet classes have been cut this semester). Long story short, politics these days is complete garbage and as I implied before I never plan on voting again. Period.

[RedRide]

Here's another point.......

We all hear about the "productivity" of the Amarican worker which is supposed to be the highest of any industrialized country. This does not mean that they produce more per hour etc.
Exactly what this does refer to is that the American worker has fewer holidays, has less sick time and works more overtime than any other industrilized country.

The Amercan worker has is given quite enough and it's time for the money holders (who are becoming increasingly richer) to pay their part instead of becoming even wealthier at the expense of the American worker.

BTW, I am now retiered and have never seen the American worker being so maligned as they presently are by some. They are being blamed for everything that is the fault of the rich power brokers.

[TLyttle]

Yeah, that is what we see from here. It is easy for us to criticise because we aren't directly involved, but if the US sneezes, Canada catches cold. The US is Canada's largest trading partner, but there are many severe efforts to make that change, most notably dealing with China and India; watch the lumber prices down there for hints of how well these deals work out.

We watch the silliness that goes on in Congress and the House and Wall Street, and wonder what it is that is keeping the US from total collapse...

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Yeah, that is what we see from here. It is easy for us to criticise because we aren't directly involved, but if the US sneezes, Canada catches cold. The US is Canada's largest trading partner, but there are many severe efforts to make that change, most notably dealing with China and India; watch the lumber prices down there for hints of how well these deals work out.

We watch the silliness that goes on in Congress and the House and Wall Street, and wonder what it is that is keeping the US from total collapse...

Actually, I often wonder the same thing myself.

The sad part is, the US is becoming increasinlgy ignorant and there is a segment that actually celibrates ignorance and stupidity.

Today I went to the local "Staples" to get some printer paper and a few odds and ends.
When in line for check out, a woman about 40 years old, well dressd and well spoken, asked me "how many feet are in a yard?" She could not figure out how many feet were in the print correction tapes she was purchasing because it listed the length in yards. It's hopeless for anyone to expect a person like this to understand what is giong one in Washington and there are millions just like her.

I would wager that an alarming percentage of Americans could not even find Washington or Canada on a map.

[TLyttle]

Probably right. Ask her and she will probably tell you what college she went to!! Nearly all of my grad class ('56) went straight into trades or military; I can think of only 3 that went on to post-secondary. Education was brutal back then: one had to pay attention in class (attending was mandatory), exams were mandatory, passing was the ONLY way to get to the next grade, ugly rules like that. My high school graduation helped me when dealing with engineers, poly-sci grads, and many more degree holders when a logical problem was to be addressed, as did most of my classmates. What went wrong? Leave no child behind? Discipline optional? Huge schools making all students faceless? And why are most other countries out-doing American and Canadian schools? I don't really expect answers to these questions, as there are too many "experts" out there to tell us that we are quite wrong. These "experts" obviously have degrees as well, but like my buddy says, he has 98.6 of those...