Good For New Buyers , A Rip Off For Owners - Page 4 - Toyota Yaris Forums

eric81 · 08-05-2009, 11:44 AM

I think the funniest part of all this, is that most of the american cars don't qualify for the good money ($4,500) which your new car must get 10mpg better than the old car, because they don't have super efficient cars like Toyota and Honda and those companies. Sure, they have one or two, but the SUV's all use MORE gas than there current clunker. If they had really started making fuel efficient vehicles like all the foreign companies 5 to 10 years ago, they would be selling more cars in the cash for clunkers thing. I believe the only vehicles we can't get to qualify are the Sequoia and the 4Runner. Every other vehicle has been sold to someone, just at my dealership alone. American's need jobs, I am not arguing with that. But my cousin got a job with GM, and they paid him 75% of his regular wages to be "Voluntarily laid off" for 6 weeks. If you are not working in Japan, the don't pay you. OR, they get smart and just reduce hours so you CAN continue to work regularly, just for less time, so you don't go hungry or unpaid. I think the US needs to look at how some other countries are doing business, (ALL other countries, to be honest) and start implementing some of their rules and ethics. I was in the US Army for 9 years, and when I was deployed to Iraq, I made about $50,000 a year, less before my extension. Civilians who never left the bases there were clearing $100,000 for doing next to nothing. They play on computers, eat 4 meals a day, get large SUV's to drive on the bases, and get issued body armor and side arms, and they never leave the base. They also get larger rooms, and if my A/C goes out, they still take priority because they are civilians. Trust me, we need to rethink how we do things here.

bikeshox · 08-05-2009, 04:26 PM

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/upto.../clunkers.html

Some good reading about the program. Looks like 47% of the new cars purchased are built by the big three. Of the top 5 cars sold only the Prius is built entirely in Japan.

Altitude · 08-05-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

This program also rewards people who bought gas guzzlers years ago and punishes those bought fuel efficient cars by giving money to those who bought the guzzlers and not giving the incentive to people who have been driving green for years.

If it's really a big deal, there is something you can do... Find someone with a clunker who can't afford the payments on a new car. Trade them YOUR car then take the clunker to the dealership and get your new wheels. There, not only will you no longer feel cheated, you'll have helped out someone else who couldn't benefit either. Win, Win!!

tuckevalastin · 08-05-2009, 07:08 PM

You have to prove you've owned it and had it insured for a full year prior to trading it in.

2+2 · 08-05-2009, 07:40 PM

At least we've pulled our collective heads up out of the sand and we're trying something. For the last 30 odd years it's like we're ostriches and if we bury our heads long enough problems will just go away. I'm sure this isn't the absolute best way to spend taxpayer's dollars but I think it's at least an 8 on a scale of 1 - 10.

If killing functional automobiles helps to get us off foreign oil then I say shoot em dead.

Zaphod · 08-05-2009, 08:24 PM

Taxing gas is a far better way to increase demand for more efficient vehicles long term.

Yaris Hilton · 08-06-2009, 07:39 AM

Yep. This isn't going to get us off of foreign oil.

aclark246 · 08-06-2009, 09:22 AM

Just a quick question, a bit off topic, but would this work?:

Have a varying annual car tax, depending on FE and State. Lower EPA FE= higher tax; Higher EPA FE= lower tax. States/Regions where the car is insured that require more lower FE vehicles will have a lower tax than the same vehicle in a region that does not demand a lower FE vehicle.

For instance: I live in Boston. For Average Joe in Boston there is little need for an SUV, so the SUV would have a 9% annual tax, (just throwing random numbers, doesn't have to be those, just so you get the picture.) A Yaris would have a 2% yearly tax, (2% on what? I don't know, but we could figure something out.)

I live in Northern Maine. For Average Joe in Maine, there is indeed a need for 4 wheel drive vehicles and trucks, just based on the environment as opposed to Boston. A yaris does well in snow and holds its own (as our Canadian and mountain members will attest to,) but it might be more beneficial to have a big truck. Likewise, the economy of the area might require larger vehicles. The yaris would still have the 2% tax, but the SUV would only have a 4% tax.

This is just something that popped into my head. Is it plausible? What are the pitfalls? I know I'm missing them, otherwise this would be implemented already.

The only worry I would have is that:
1. It would give the EPA much more political and economic power than it already has
2. For those of us who do much better than EPA, there is no extra savings besides gas.
3. For those of us who do much worse than EPA, there is jealousy from those who do better, (on the tax break side...)
4. Would the logistics be possible? i.e. proving the low FE vehicles are neccesary for an individual/family so they don't have to pay the higher tax, not having as high a tax on persons whose low FE vehicle is not their primary vehicle, etc.

Would this type of program promote high efficiency vehicles more than CFC in which CFC is a one-time savings, whereas this idea could be an annual savings over the life of the vehicle? Maybe even a -% for high FE vehicles? Tax the unnecessary (key word) guzzlers and rebate the efficient ones?

(once again, it is just an idea, I haven't done any research or made a business plan or anything, haha.)

2+2 · 08-06-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

Yep. This isn't going to get us off of foreign oil.

er I didn't say it would get us off foreign oil, I said helps to get us off foreign oil. Big difference. With such a small percentage of cars involved I would expect the effect to be small, very small. Increasing the fed tax at the pump is the ultimate solution imo, so I very much agree with Zaphod. I'd love to see them increase it a small amount every year from now on. It wouldn't shock the economy and in a few years there would be fewer gas guzzlers on the road.

Baby steps?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsUaQUW-Az0

At least they're finally doing something. Maybe when the economy improves they'll bump up the tax at the pump. Yeah right! LOL

daf62757 · 08-06-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneW

"Cash for Clunkers" is an ice cream cone and a peck on the cheek compared to the full blown luvin' you're gonna get from the Crony Capitalism of Cap 'n Rape (backed by GE and other Corporate giants) and "Health Care" (backed by the AMA).

Gene

Very true! I find it so ironic that Obama is pushing electric cars....and then is pushing cap and trade which will make it very difficult to use coal electric plants, which will drive up the price of electricity and make electric cars almost as expensive as gas cars.

Too many people have been fooled by Obama the snake oil salesman. His policies are just plain socialist and bad for America!

2+2 · 08-06-2009, 06:55 PM

What country do you think the president was born in?

KCALB SIRAY · 08-07-2009, 04:17 PM

Soooo, Joe Blow gets what he thinks is a great credit for a 1985 Escort, then they hand him the keys to a brand spanking new Focus. Sounds like a good deal to you and me, right? Joe drives home, singing, "I'm on, top of the world and lookin', down at creation..." and you get the picture, he's as the the other song suggests, "Happy as a Lark".

So Joe gets home to his apartment, get's ready to go to work. It's Saturday afternoon, and he has to be at the Mall for his shift at the Gap. Joe makes about $10.50 an hour as a supervisor. So Joe goes to work shows off his new ride and loves every minute of it.

A few weeks go by and rent is due. Not sure, but depending on area, a one bedroom around here is about $900 up to $1200 or so, give or take a few. Joe likes his lifestyle, so a shabby apartment is out of the question, and his lifestyle is just as nice, late nights out with the gap crew, parties etc. Joe pays his rent on time and time goes by.

Month end rolls around and Joe pays his car note. Car note is around $250 based on Joe's % they gave him at the dealer.

Ok, to save time in this story, we all know where this is heading. Joe is living well beyond his means just by buying into this idea of getting a new car based on his old car is worth more than it actually is. Joe had a car that ran well because his Dad taught him how to take care of it at an early age. Soon Joe begins to fall behind on payments because Joe's Dad might have taught him how to take care of his care and have his oil changed, but they failed to teach him the value of a dollar. So Joe blows his dough on partying all the time. Now Joe is about to loose his car, might loose his job soon due to retail sales going up and down, up and down. All in all, your looking at about another 2 billion going down the drain when all is said and done due to people not being able to pay for these cars. Yeah they get there car back, but won't be able to sell them. Has anyone taken this in to account when this idea was thought up? Answer is, YES!! We've seen it already, they take it from our children, and their children and so on. Higher taxes? Yep, there coming!!

"LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!"

Yaris Hilton · 08-07-2009, 04:32 PM

He's not going to get anything for his Escort under the Cash for Clunkers. Too much gas mileage. But the rest is on target.

Altitude · 08-07-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daf62757

Too many people have been fooled by Obama the snake oil salesman. His policies are just plain socialist and bad for America!

Polly want a cracker?

Altitude · 08-07-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCALB SIRAY

Higher taxes? Yep, there coming!!
"LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!"

It is all a big game. You see, Republicans cut taxes and deregulate, things go to hell so the Dems come in and raise taxes back to previous levels and impose more regulations to fix the problems. Then people complain that taxes are too high so they vote in Republicans who then lower taxes and deregulate and things go to hell and the Dems are elected to fix it and have to raise taxes... ad nauseum.

KCALB SIRAY · 08-07-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

He's not going to get anything for his Escort under the Cash for Clunkers. Too much gas mileage. But the rest is on target.

lol, you are right

tuckevalastin · 08-07-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altitude

It is all a big game. You see, Republicans cut taxes and deregulate, things go to hell so the Dems come in and raise taxes back to previous levels and impose more regulations to fix the problems. Then people complain that taxes are too high so they vote in Republicans who then lower taxes and deregulate and things go to hell and the Dems are elected to fix it and have to raise taxes... ad nauseum.

I'm not even go to touch that statement but you should be ready to have that statement ripped apart by someone since it is begging to be.

aclark246 · 08-07-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altitude

It is all a big game. You see, Republicans cut taxes and deregulate, things go to hell so the Dems come in and raise taxes back to previous levels and impose more regulations to fix the problems. Then people complain that taxes are too high so they vote in Republicans who then lower taxes and deregulate and things go to hell and the Dems are elected to fix it and have to raise taxes... ad nauseum.

Sounds like checks and balances to me!

...
...
...
...

08-05-2009, 07:08 PM	#58
tuckevalastin View User's Garage Drives: 2008 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Delaware/Connecticut Posts: 609	You have to prove you've owned it and had it insured for a full year prior to trading it in. __________________

08-05-2009, 07:40 PM	#59
2+2 Drives: 09 3Dr Manual Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 210	At least we've pulled our collective heads up out of the sand and we're trying something. For the last 30 odd years it's like we're ostriches and if we bury our heads long enough problems will just go away. I'm sure this isn't the absolute best way to spend taxpayer's dollars but I think it's at least an 8 on a scale of 1 - 10. If killing functional automobiles helps to get us off foreign oil then I say shoot em dead. __________________ Just put the pedal down and let the devil take the hindquarters.

08-06-2009, 09:22 AM	#62
aclark246 50 MPG or BUST! View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Black Yaris Sedan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: RI Posts: 35	Just a quick question, a bit off topic, but would this work?: Have a varying annual car tax, depending on FE and State. Lower EPA FE= higher tax; Higher EPA FE= lower tax. States/Regions where the car is insured that require more lower FE vehicles will have a lower tax than the same vehicle in a region that does not demand a lower FE vehicle. For instance: I live in Boston. For Average Joe in Boston there is little need for an SUV, so the SUV would have a 9% annual tax, (just throwing random numbers, doesn't have to be those, just so you get the picture.) A Yaris would have a 2% yearly tax, (2% on what? I don't know, but we could figure something out.) I live in Northern Maine. For Average Joe in Maine, there is indeed a need for 4 wheel drive vehicles and trucks, just based on the environment as opposed to Boston. A yaris does well in snow and holds its own (as our Canadian and mountain members will attest to,) but it might be more beneficial to have a big truck. Likewise, the economy of the area might require larger vehicles. The yaris would still have the 2% tax, but the SUV would only have a 4% tax. This is just something that popped into my head. Is it plausible? What are the pitfalls? I know I'm missing them, otherwise this would be implemented already. The only worry I would have is that: 1. It would give the EPA much more political and economic power than it already has 2. For those of us who do much better than EPA, there is no extra savings besides gas. 3. For those of us who do much worse than EPA, there is jealousy from those who do better, (on the tax break side...) 4. Would the logistics be possible? i.e. proving the low FE vehicles are neccesary for an individual/family so they don't have to pay the higher tax, not having as high a tax on persons whose low FE vehicle is not their primary vehicle, etc. Would this type of program promote high efficiency vehicles more than CFC in which CFC is a one-time savings, whereas this idea could be an annual savings over the life of the vehicle? Maybe even a -% for high FE vehicles? Tax the unnecessary (key word) guzzlers and rebate the efficient ones? (once again, it is just an idea, I haven't done any research or made a business plan or anything, haha.) __________________

08-06-2009, 06:55 PM	#65
2+2 Drives: 09 3Dr Manual Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 210	What country do you think the president was born in? __________________ Just put the pedal down and let the devil take the hindquarters.

08-07-2009, 04:17 PM	#66
KCALB SIRAY それを吸ってください View User's Garage Drives: black sand lb Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 8,894	Soooo, Joe Blow gets what he thinks is a great credit for a 1985 Escort, then they hand him the keys to a brand spanking new Focus. Sounds like a good deal to you and me, right? Joe drives home, singing, "I'm on, top of the world and lookin', down at creation..." and you get the picture, he's as the the other song suggests, "Happy as a Lark". So Joe gets home to his apartment, get's ready to go to work. It's Saturday afternoon, and he has to be at the Mall for his shift at the Gap. Joe makes about $10.50 an hour as a supervisor. So Joe goes to work shows off his new ride and loves every minute of it. A few weeks go by and rent is due. Not sure, but depending on area, a one bedroom around here is about $900 up to $1200 or so, give or take a few. Joe likes his lifestyle, so a shabby apartment is out of the question, and his lifestyle is just as nice, late nights out with the gap crew, parties etc. Joe pays his rent on time and time goes by. Month end rolls around and Joe pays his car note. Car note is around $250 based on Joe's % they gave him at the dealer. Ok, to save time in this story, we all know where this is heading. Joe is living well beyond his means just by buying into this idea of getting a new car based on his old car is worth more than it actually is. Joe had a car that ran well because his Dad taught him how to take care of it at an early age. Soon Joe begins to fall behind on payments because Joe's Dad might have taught him how to take care of his care and have his oil changed, but they failed to teach him the value of a dollar. So Joe blows his dough on partying all the time. Now Joe is about to loose his car, might loose his job soon due to retail sales going up and down, up and down. All in all, your looking at about another 2 billion going down the drain when all is said and done due to people not being able to pay for these cars. Yeah they get there car back, but won't be able to sell them. Has anyone taken this in to account when this idea was thought up? Answer is, YES!! We've seen it already, they take it from our children, and their children and so on. Higher taxes? Yep, there coming!! "LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!" __________________ http://lifesdailypimpslap.tumblr.com/#me My Build

08-05-2009, 11:44 AM	#55
eric81 View User's Garage Drives: Toyota Salesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarksville, IN Posts: 297	I think the funniest part of all this, is that most of the american cars don't qualify for the good money ($4,500) which your new car must get 10mpg better than the old car, because they don't have super efficient cars like Toyota and Honda and those companies. Sure, they have one or two, but the SUV's all use MORE gas than there current clunker. If they had really started making fuel efficient vehicles like all the foreign companies 5 to 10 years ago, they would be selling more cars in the cash for clunkers thing. I believe the only vehicles we can't get to qualify are the Sequoia and the 4Runner. Every other vehicle has been sold to someone, just at my dealership alone. American's need jobs, I am not arguing with that. But my cousin got a job with GM, and they paid him 75% of his regular wages to be "Voluntarily laid off" for 6 weeks. If you are not working in Japan, the don't pay you. OR, they get smart and just reduce hours so you CAN continue to work regularly, just for less time, so you don't go hungry or unpaid. I think the US needs to look at how some other countries are doing business, (ALL other countries, to be honest) and start implementing some of their rules and ethics. I was in the US Army for 9 years, and when I was deployed to Iraq, I made about $50,000 a year, less before my extension. Civilians who never left the bases there were clearing $100,000 for doing next to nothing. They play on computers, eat 4 meals a day, get large SUV's to drive on the bases, and get issued body armor and side arms, and they never leave the base. They also get larger rooms, and if my A/C goes out, they still take priority because they are civilians. Trust me, we need to rethink how we do things here.

08-05-2009, 04:26 PM	#56
bikeshox Drives: 07' Sedan Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: MN Posts: 22	http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/upto.../clunkers.html Some good reading about the program. Looks like 47% of the new cars purchased are built by the big three. Of the top 5 cars sold only the Prius is built entirely in Japan.

08-05-2009, 08:24 PM	#60
Zaphod Drives: Big Yellow Join Date: May 2009 Location: Somewhere in the vacinity of Betelgeuse Posts: 179	Taxing gas is a far better way to increase demand for more efficient vehicles long term.

08-06-2009, 07:39 AM	#61
Yaris Hilton Half a Bubble Off Plumb Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA Posts: 1,593	Yep. This isn't going to get us off of foreign oil.

08-07-2009, 04:32 PM	#67
Yaris Hilton Half a Bubble Off Plumb Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA Posts: 1,593	He's not going to get anything for his Escort under the Cash for Clunkers. Too much gas mileage. But the rest is on target.