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11-14-2009, 08:42 PM | #55 |
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1% to 2%....over 100,000 miles this adds up to over $100 savings in fuel...but more importantly, using 0w-20 means the engine will last longer over heavier oil, and in most conditions. See my post above for more reason on this.
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11-14-2009, 08:56 PM | #56 |
Crazy Oil Sniffer
Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009
Location: ME
Posts: 498
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Silverglow,
I very much agree with your opinion of lighter weight oils-after this sample I drained the oil and refilled with RLI 0W-20. R2 |
11-15-2009, 03:11 PM | #57 | |
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
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Quote:
- Aside: You need lube to get up in the ring pack and stay on the wear areas. This is NOT PAO group iv synthetic, a terrible lubricant but with good cold flow properties. So oil base stock magic makes a diff too. Conventional is better and most 20wt-er's swear by Grp II+ motorcraft SS. |
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11-15-2009, 10:55 PM | #58 | |
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Quote:
Synthetic oil is better then any and all conventional because synthetic is less prone to (1) shearing, and (2) oxidation. For longevity purposes, I'd prefer synthetic....however, if one only uses conventional, this engine will still last a heck of a long time...also, I don't know of a conventional oil that provides 0w weight. |
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11-17-2009, 06:53 PM | #59 |
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
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Someone at BITOG just spectrochemically analysed the 0w-20 Toyota oil, and its Japanese import by IDEMITSU and its prob the best 20wt out there. Japanese love moly and it has TONS of moly. Same is tru with the Honda OEM oil. I hear its under 5 bucks a litre too and a full real synthetic, unlike syntec and synpower and PP which are fake synthetic - just severly processed Dino oil. So hit the dealer and give it a try.
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11-23-2009, 11:24 AM | #60 | |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,185
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Quote:
OIL BRAND: Valvoline OIL TYPE: Durablend 5w20 SAMPLE DATE: 08/20/2009 TIME ON OIL: 4,930 MILES VEHICLE MILEAGE: 15,104 SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS (ppm) SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS (ppm) 12 - IRON 0 - CHROMIUM 0 - LEAD 3 - COPPER 0 - TIN 2 - ALUMINUM 0 - NICKEL 0 - SILVER 13 - SILICON 13 - BORON 140 - SODIUM 10 - MAGNESIUM 2441 - CALCIUM 0 - BARIUM 789 - PHOSPHORUS 861 - ZINC 7 - MOLYBDENUM 0 - TITANIUM 0 - VANADIUM 0 - POTASSIUM PHYSICAL PROPERTIES <1 - FUEL (% VOL) N/A - VIS @ 40 C cSt 8.52 - VIS @ 100 C cSt 0 - WATER (% VOL) N/A - SOOT/SOLIDS (% WT) NO - COOLANT |
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02-27-2010, 10:04 PM | #61 |
Drives: 2008 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 323
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I've been following topics relating to 5w20 oils for a while with regards to various makes and models. The most enlightening post I have seen was made by an (I believe Ford) engineer involved in oil testing. He went so far as to say that while 5w20's protection was considered acceptable, and resulted in a 1% or so increase in MPG, which is good for the manufacturer's CAFE, that actual wear was significantly greater for 5w20 than for 5w30. And that he, personally, did not use 5w20 for that reason.
I use 5w30 for the same reasons. P.S. I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned in this thread, but all the TSB is saying is that Toyota is (retroactively) switching to GF4 oils from GF3. Read the second red box on the TSB carefully. It clearly states that viscosity requirements vary by model, and that you should use the viscosity stated on the filler cap. All the 5w20/0w20 stuff is about what they are doing with new engines. |
03-02-2010, 09:56 AM | #62 |
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Location: New Hampshire
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I have been saying this for years. If 20wt was OK, then the newer yaris would be spec'd for it and they are not. Thats not saying 5w-30 GF4 is a good oil. I would be hunting for a 10w-30 SJ or SL outdoor equipment oil for high stress applications. John Deere, Briggs and Stratton and mTD all make good HD oils - dont tlet the lawnmower/tractor bother you - these engine are air cooled usually have NO oil pump or filter and run at wide open throttle mid-high load. 4-stroke marine I/O engine oils are stout too.
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03-02-2010, 01:02 PM | #63 | |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
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03-04-2010, 09:57 AM | #64 |
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
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Yeah - I like to do that but the cost is high since I'm out of work. Plus I'd need a trend of over 2 OCI. So that would be 3 UOA. I'll run the stuff and see if it runs smooth, revs hard and quiet to redline, and show reasonable fuel mileage - thats good enough for me. I think these oil just have the old higher level of ZDDP, no friction mods, and higher Ca detergent. OTW they are the same as PCMO's. Lowes had B&S syn reasonably cheap ( under 6 a quart) before winter - now its all bought up. Surprised me
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03-04-2010, 12:50 PM | #65 |
Drives: 2008 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Actually, *do* let the lawnmower/tractor bother you. It's a completely different application. The requirements for these engines are completely different than for automotive applications. And you can't view oils along a one dimensional metric of "good" and "bad". That's far too simplistic. Oils are formulated for the specific application they are intended for. An oil may be (and probably is) superlative for your tractor but totally inappropriate for your car, and vice versa. (Although I should note that Scamsoil's marketing department *does* deceptively use *gear oil* metrics like the "four ball" test to market their snake oil products.)
On the topic of 10w30 vs 5w30... A 5w30 oil at 0F is thicker than a straight 30 wt at operating temperature. In fact, probably thicker than is optimal. All 10w30 is going to do is increase the starter load a bit. Use what the manufacturer advises instead of doing all this armchair second guessing. A possible exception to that, which may have some slight advantages, might be substituting a 0w30 for 5w30, if the (reputable) oil manufacturer rates it to be a suitable replacement for 5w30. |
03-04-2010, 02:27 PM | #66 | |
Drives: 2013 Chevy Spark 1LT 5-speed Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
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03-04-2010, 07:34 PM | #67 | |
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
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Quote:
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03-04-2010, 11:18 PM | #68 |
Drives: 2008 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 323
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Yes, all multivis oils are thicker at cold temps than at operating temperature. I mentioned the fact because it is widely misunderstood, and people who do that tend to recommend 10wX oils or straight weights.
I would not expect to be able to measure the difference between AFE 0w30 and a 5w30 without a lot of very systematic testing. I seriously doubt that your 5 mpg difference has anything at all to do with the oil. Engines don't see EP. They see sliding friction under very high shear conditions. Lot's and lots of it. What, exactly, do you think that extra EP additives are buying you? And what are the down sides, I wonder? You are, of course, free to second guess the engineers as much as you please. Especially if you are out of warranty. But you do it at your own peril. And I'd be particularly nervous going further and telling *other* people to use it. That said, if you are looking for an impressive oil that meets a range of European (and particularly German) high performance standards which almost no other does, and has an HTHS of 3.7... look to Mobil 1 0w40. If I were going to stray from the spec'd 5w30, that's what I would use. http://tinyurl.com/39b6cg BTW, why don't you care about your (and other people's) catalytic converter? -Steve Last edited by sbergman27; 03-04-2010 at 11:41 PM. |
03-05-2010, 12:25 AM | #69 |
Drives: 08 Yaris sedan auto / Fit auto Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: northeast
Posts: 2,897
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how about PENNZOIL 5w-30 Utra or EURO synthetic ( ACEA A3/B3/B4 ) in a 5w-30 for the YARIS ? Here's the Technical Data Sheet for the EURO Ultra http://www.pennzoil.com/assets/PZL_U...5W30_01_10.pdf and for the ULTRA ( North America ) , http://www.pennzoil.com/assets/PENNZ...thetic_PDS.pdf . Here's full page for the ULTRA , www.pennzoil.com/#/motor-oil/pennzoil-ultra .
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03-05-2010, 01:01 AM | #70 |
Drives: 2008 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 323
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The Euro product looks pretty impressive. Particularly for a 5w30. I didn't know a 5w30 with a 3.68 HTHS existed.
The concern by European high performance manufacturers is with the relatively low HTHS of gf-4 oils with regards to the valve train. Specifically, cam and lifter wear. They feel that 3.5 is required for best protection. Unfortunately, HTHS is also the primary number that determines an oil's fuel efficiency characteristics. And lower is better there. However, the whole issue of valve train wear and HTHS is probably not germane to our cars. Certainly, my 1988 Chevy Sprint Metro 1.0L 3-cyl with 345,000 miles on the odometer still shows minimal cam wear. And it has always used 0w30 or 5w30 Mobil 1, with HTHS of between 2.99 and 3.1. |
03-05-2010, 01:13 AM | #71 |
Drives: 08 Yaris sedan auto / Fit auto Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: northeast
Posts: 2,897
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thanks . Very informative . Therefore the EURO would be fine . Maybe overkill .
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03-05-2010, 10:30 PM | #72 | |
Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 622
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