VOTE! (Turbo vs. S/C) - Page 4 - Toyota Yaris Forums

The Spectacle · 10-18-2009, 10:52 PM

I didn't read the whole thread but I'll throw some comments out there:

The only thing I see holding the Yaris back from making good, reliable power is the lack of a real engine management system. Piggybacks like the Emanage aren't the best solution because they just trick the ECU into seeing conditons that don't really exist, which limits the capability of the solution. If AEM or another company made a standalone EMS for the Yaris like they do for the TC, the possibilities would be a lot greater.

With that said, with the availability of engine management on the market right now, I'd go with a SC. They're very linear and predictable and therefor easier to tune. Turbo's are a different animal and take a lot more care on the tuning side to get dialed in right to make the vehicle have stock drive ability like characteristics.

jt258 · 10-19-2009, 11:28 AM

EVO IS FRONT WHEEL DRIVE BASED AWD. THE GTR IS RWD BASED AWD.

cali yaris · 10-19-2009, 12:01 PM

48 - 11

PETERPOOP · 10-19-2009, 01:22 PM

Doesn't this inspire you to get a MI turbo kit for us? :)

mikebdubsuby · 10-19-2009, 04:09 PM

I personally prefer turbo, I've driven in supercharged cars and turbo cars, my DD is a WRX swapped Impreza RS and I just feel like a turbo is more power efficient.

I'm new to the Yaris, me and my gf just bought ours like 2 weeks ago, but from what I've read there's more options for supercharging over turbocharging for this platform.

I also agree with the earlier posts about buying a faster car, a Yaris makes what like 120 hp? Not a really great starting point for a build. It's a nice, clean, economy car, I'd just keep it that way. Well that's my newb forced induction Yaris opinion. Maybe as I learn more it'll change.

CaysE · 10-19-2009, 04:22 PM

Turbo is always better in terms of power.

But if we're voting for better in general, I'd say a supercharger is just plain easier to deal with.

PETERPOOP · 10-19-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebdubsuby

a Yaris makes what like 120 hp?.

More like 85 whp, stock.

mikebdubsuby · 10-19-2009, 05:52 PM

I meant like to the crank, so I guess I was pretty close. I don't see why you would wanna drop that much $ on something with that baseline. A swap or a different seems like a better investment. It's just like when people mod a non vtec d series. Seems pointless when you can do a head swap or a b series swap for around the same cost.

CaysE · 10-19-2009, 09:13 PM

A swap to a better engine is always good, but it's like all those non-VTEC D series cars: sometimes it's good just to see what you can do with what you have. There's always something faster out there. :)

mikebdubsuby · 10-19-2009, 09:22 PM

Yeah I can appreciate that. When I bought my car (04 Subaru Impreza RS) I really wanted to build the N/A 2.5, but then I learned about cars lol. So building an engine with an open deck block didn't seem worth it when I couldn't make very much reliable hp. I swapped in my WRX motor and I feel like that was the better way to go.

Blown_xa · 10-19-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebdubsuby

I meant like to the crank, so I guess I was pretty close. I don't see why you would wanna drop that much $ on something with that baseline. A swap or a different seems like a better investment. It's just like when people mod a non vtec d series. Seems pointless when you can do a head swap or a b series swap for around the same cost.

the point is, it's more satifying to make a slower car fast. And it's harder. Anybody with the funds can go to the dealership and buy a fast car, and do well in motorsports event with minor work... but where is the blood and sweat in that? There are so many fast Evos and s2000's and STI's and Mazdas speeds... it's not uncommon. What is great is passing those guys on the track. And it can be done. Nobody remembers that "fast Evo" at track day, because there were 5. People remember the Yaris or xA that passed that evo though.

frownonfun · 10-20-2009, 01:22 AM

to buy a car and swap the engine with a different car makes no sense to me. why didn't you just buy the car with the engine you swapped to in the first place?

CaysE · 10-20-2009, 09:40 AM

An engine is just a bunch of parts; it's like swapping any other part of the car. One could argue, "why modify a car at all?" You know the answer to that: you're on an enthusiast forum, after all. Most people here are modifying their cars.

Anyway, to answer your question more directly: it saves money. You can transfer a stronger engine that was never available for your model car. For example: say I like my 1992 Camaro but want to be as fast as modern Corvettes. I'm not going to spend $60k just to buy the Vette; I'm going to spend $6k to swap in an LSX motor.

mikebdubsuby · 10-20-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frownonfun

to buy a car and swap the engine with a different car makes no sense to me. why didn't you just buy the car with the engine you swapped to in the first place?

Because I didn't know how significant the difference in holding boost was between a closed deck and open deck block. And once I bought the car and wanted to turbo it and did research and found out that my engine wouldn't hold, swapping seemed like a better option than selling my car and taking a loss. Swapping isn't a big deal. It was a weekend project. It was simple. I'm able to retain my complete stock drivetrain. All that was really involved was pulling one motor, swapping out the fuel pump for a higher flowing one, and then swapping the crossmember, drop the other motor in and you're done. With that mentality, why do anything to your car instead of buying a car that was modded by the previous owner? Because we're car enthusiasts.

RacerFreakXXX · 10-20-2009, 09:12 PM

the only upside to swapping in a wrx motor on a rs is saving on insurance costs, rofl. I would have gone sti motor swap if you are gonna go that far though. On the yaris you are better off building the engine because weight is the key factor in the car.

Again as it will for a while, once a good tuning option comes along for the yaris there will be more turbo options. For right now a supercharger on an un-tuned yaris seems safer than a turbo yaris in a lot of people's minds. If only we had something like k-pro for our toyota's. I feel like people have forgotten a lot about them in the tuning industry (not that toyota puts out a sports car any more cough cough).

frownonfun · 10-20-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebdubsuby

With that mentality, why do anything to your car instead of buying a car that was modded by the previous owner? Because we're car enthusiasts.

which was kind of my point. i see posts all too often (like yours) questioning why people make performance modifications to a car like the yaris. i just don't get it. what does it matter to anyone else what one does to THEIR car? some people swap out perfectly good engines and others mod econoboxes. either way what's the problem?

and besides the poll doesn't ask hey do you think people should mod their yaris to make it faster.

not picking on you personally but i just wish people would stop popping into threads talking about how it doesn't make sense to mod the yaris. why does it have to make sense?

Blown_xa · 10-20-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikebdubsuby

Yeah I can appreciate that. When I bought my car (04 Subaru Impreza RS) I really wanted to build the N/A 2.5, but then I learned about cars lol. So building an engine with an open deck block didn't seem worth it when I couldn't make very much reliable hp. I swapped in my WRX motor and I feel like that was the better way to go.

You can make a lot of reliable power with an open deck motor. I guess you have a high number in mind to be conserned about open vs closed deck design. Of coarse Im refering to Toyota power plants, maybe with Subaru motors they are not strong blocks.

RacerFreakXXX · 10-21-2009, 01:07 AM

Sorry I just had to

View Poll Results: Which is better?
Supercharged Yaris	30	28.85%
Turboed Yaris	74	71.15%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

10-18-2009, 10:52 PM	#55
The Spectacle View User's Garage Drives: 08 BSP LB Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 218	I didn't read the whole thread but I'll throw some comments out there: The only thing I see holding the Yaris back from making good, reliable power is the lack of a real engine management system. Piggybacks like the Emanage aren't the best solution because they just trick the ECU into seeing conditons that don't really exist, which limits the capability of the solution. If AEM or another company made a standalone EMS for the Yaris like they do for the TC, the possibilities would be a lot greater. With that said, with the availability of engine management on the market right now, I'd go with a SC. They're very linear and predictable and therefor easier to tune. Turbo's are a different animal and take a lot more care on the tuning side to get dialed in right to make the vehicle have stock drive ability like characteristics. __________________

10-19-2009, 12:01 PM	#57
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,859	48 - 11 __________________ Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.

10-20-2009, 01:22 AM	#66
frownonfun View User's Garage Drives: 09 Yaris HB, 08 SR5 Tundra Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RGV, Texas Posts: 1,086	to buy a car and swap the engine with a different car makes no sense to me. why didn't you just buy the car with the engine you swapped to in the first place? __________________ I crush you like tiny clown car, because you are clown, yes?

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10-19-2009, 11:28 AM	#56
jt258 View User's Garage Drives: 10' corolla ce Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: HOUSTON Posts: 106	EVO IS FRONT WHEEL DRIVE BASED AWD. THE GTR IS RWD BASED AWD.

10-19-2009, 01:22 PM	#58
PETERPOOP View User's Garage Drives: 08 white liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,674	Doesn't this inspire you to get a MI turbo kit for us? :)

10-19-2009, 04:09 PM	#59
mikebdubsuby Drives: Swapped 04 Suby RS, 2010 Yaris Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 7	I personally prefer turbo, I've driven in supercharged cars and turbo cars, my DD is a WRX swapped Impreza RS and I just feel like a turbo is more power efficient. I'm new to the Yaris, me and my gf just bought ours like 2 weeks ago, but from what I've read there's more options for supercharging over turbocharging for this platform. I also agree with the earlier posts about buying a faster car, a Yaris makes what like 120 hp? Not a really great starting point for a build. It's a nice, clean, economy car, I'd just keep it that way. Well that's my newb forced induction Yaris opinion. Maybe as I learn more it'll change.

10-19-2009, 04:22 PM	#60
CaysE That Focus Guy Drives: 2004 Focus RSVT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Posts: 51	Turbo is always better in terms of power. But if we're voting for better in general, I'd say a supercharger is just plain easier to deal with.

10-19-2009, 05:52 PM	#62
mikebdubsuby Drives: Swapped 04 Suby RS, 2010 Yaris Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 7	I meant like to the crank, so I guess I was pretty close. I don't see why you would wanna drop that much $ on something with that baseline. A swap or a different seems like a better investment. It's just like when people mod a non vtec d series. Seems pointless when you can do a head swap or a b series swap for around the same cost.

10-19-2009, 09:13 PM	#63
CaysE That Focus Guy Drives: 2004 Focus RSVT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Posts: 51	A swap to a better engine is always good, but it's like all those non-VTEC D series cars: sometimes it's good just to see what you can do with what you have. There's always something faster out there. :)

10-19-2009, 09:22 PM	#64
mikebdubsuby Drives: Swapped 04 Suby RS, 2010 Yaris Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 7	Yeah I can appreciate that. When I bought my car (04 Subaru Impreza RS) I really wanted to build the N/A 2.5, but then I learned about cars lol. So building an engine with an open deck block didn't seem worth it when I couldn't make very much reliable hp. I swapped in my WRX motor and I feel like that was the better way to go.

10-20-2009, 09:40 AM	#67
CaysE That Focus Guy Drives: 2004 Focus RSVT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Posts: 51	An engine is just a bunch of parts; it's like swapping any other part of the car. One could argue, "why modify a car at all?" You know the answer to that: you're on an enthusiast forum, after all. Most people here are modifying their cars. Anyway, to answer your question more directly: it saves money. You can transfer a stronger engine that was never available for your model car. For example: say I like my 1992 Camaro but want to be as fast as modern Corvettes. I'm not going to spend $60k just to buy the Vette; I'm going to spend $6k to swap in an LSX motor.

10-20-2009, 09:12 PM	#69
RacerFreakXXX JDM Fred View User's Garage Drives: 06 Mazda Miata Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somers NY Posts: 787	the only upside to swapping in a wrx motor on a rs is saving on insurance costs, rofl. I would have gone sti motor swap if you are gonna go that far though. On the yaris you are better off building the engine because weight is the key factor in the car. Again as it will for a while, once a good tuning option comes along for the yaris there will be more turbo options. For right now a supercharger on an un-tuned yaris seems safer than a turbo yaris in a lot of people's minds. If only we had something like k-pro for our toyota's. I feel like people have forgotten a lot about them in the tuning industry (not that toyota puts out a sports car any more cough cough).

10-21-2009, 01:07 AM	#72
RacerFreakXXX JDM Fred View User's Garage Drives: 06 Mazda Miata Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somers NY Posts: 787	Sorry I just had to