Swapping ECU's?

[RacerFreakXXX]

Has anyone considered using a different ecu and just retuning it for the Yaris? Idk if it is possible for a street legal car but I have heard of people using other ECU's when they swap in a different engine or even when you want to use Hondata on your s2k, and using a RSX-S ECU.

[RacerFreakXXX]

I was thinking maybe swapping for a celica ecu, or mr2, or xb/xa... something of that nature. In all honesty I'm surprised no one has come out with anything for the yaris. I see at least 3 to 4 different yaris a day. It's also a perfect tuner car for a young kid who can't afford a 22k civic si, god only knows why they have become so expensive. Maybe one day someone will have something, lol.

[Bluevitz-rs]

In the case of the Corolla, you could swap ECUs with the Celica GT 1ZZ-FE. It has a slightly higher rev limit, and makes 5 more hp than the Corolla.

But all cars with the 1NZ-FE make the same power, so there'd be no difference.

In the case of Honda, they all have a K series motors, so the ECUs are compatible with one another.

[Nexus1155]

I have seen someone swap a Toyota ECU into a Honda, but I think they used a Toyota engine as well, it was a weird swap on honda-tech.

But that dezod thing is not the future. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would shell out $1800 for something like that vs. an excellent standalone system which would even be cheaper. Just because it requires wiring, doesn't mean its impossible to do.

I could see the use for something like that on a more expensive/exotic car, but nothing like a scion or a toyota or honda

[why?]

Originally Posted by Nexus1155

But that dezod thing is not the future. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would shell out $1800 for something like that vs. an excellent standalone system which would even be cheaper. Just because it requires wiring, doesn't mean its impossible to do.

I could see the use for something like that on a more expensive/exotic car, but nothing like a scion or a toyota or honda

it depends what you want. If you don't want a straight on race car, having the ability to have the stock ecu still available is rather nice.

[Nexus1155]

If you don't want a straight on race car

Thats when you just get a Greddy e-manage blue, that has already been proven to work.

Thats all that device really is is just an interceptor as well or so it seems.

I dunno, I just think it is silly, I can see spending money where money is needed. IE: name brand turbos, meth kits with failsafes, etc etc, but not something like overpriced piggybacks or .... backpurging piping when welding

[RacerFreakXXX]

Well it seems to me people wont put out big money for a car that's worth about 10-15k. Also manufacturers don't have much to work with, the engine can't handle much w/o being rebuilt unlike most tuner cars. RSX, SI, S200, 350z, 240sx, 200sx, ect are still good for over double whp, while our car can barely handle anything over 150whp (going based on garms turbo yaris, but there aren't really any others) and double is 180whp. Also out ECU seems to just be this gigantic wall unless you bring something in, like EMS. Either way I have no problem dishing out 1-1.5k for a good EMS and tune.

[Nexus1155]

Well it seems to me people wont put out big money for a car that's worth about 10-15k.

Exactly.... When my Audi came out in 2000+ years it was big money, when i bought it it was $21K, now they are worth like 6-8k. ECU flashes go for around $600 with a core if you buy it from a reputable dealer, but kids only want to spend $200 on an ECU reflash.

And now, great minds have come together and cracked that code for Hondas and Subarus etc, and I have heard horror stories of people blowing their cars up. I get requests all day to raise peoples rev limiters to 8k on a 6500 redline car.

When you are tuning any car, and do not buy the top of the line parts or the top of the line systems, money is always an object. Just because you work with Dezod, does not make it an outstanding product, a glorified piggyback is a glorified piggyback no matter which way you cut the cake. You can't call something new if its just repackaged electronics shoved into a prettier casing.. The problem with that is that there is a select crowd who will indulge in such mods like that, which is like 5% of the community, which is sad I know, but it is true.

You can look at a used electronic device and see if it was abused or not. It is not like parts start falling out over time, its just a PCB board in a case. So you are saying that some product that sat in a warehouse for 6 years is better than the one that some kid used for a couple months? I'd rather the used one, cheaper, and confirmed to be working instead of getting a unit that is DOA, which happens more often than not

[RacerFreakXXX]

First you need to look at how people are influenced, people don't buy tuner magazines any more. Yes, I know some people still do, but since the economy went down hill magazine subscriptions were the first to go. So people go off of what their friends have and what is known.

Most people look at the yaris and don't see its potential the same way they do at a mini cooper or a miata or a civic. Maybe it's because this is the first real generation of the yaris in America that has caused people to start tuning them. Either way you look at it, the market for yaris performance is not in demand. There is a blitz supercharger, that still needs to be tuned to work properly and a zage turbo kit, that needs a better turbo and oil pan. The zage kit could have easily been copied by greddy or hks or any other tuning company. I don't understand why this is, when companies make stuff for a rolling brick (Scion XB). The yaris is more aerodynamic and a better car on the track. It's all comes down to who the car is marketed to. Maybe it's due to the economy going own hill while the yaris was becoming popular.

Onto my main topic, can you swap an ecu from an XA or XB? Isn't it the same engine and they actually make harnesses and tunes for them?

[cali yaris]

This is the future: http://www.dezod.com/pd_apr.cfm

I did my tC project before any of that was invented. Had to go standalone. Sound familiar? The aftermarket still came, and on a car that no longer sports the same motor (2.5L for 2011 model) only a few years later.

If they keep making the Yaris, it will develop a performance aftermarket over time, it's just too soon. Need more USED cars on the road, those are the ones people mess with.

I wonder how many parts/kits were available for the Civic three years after it was released here? That would be 1973-75 if anyone is counting. I was in high school, I sure don't remember anyone modding a Civic at that time. We all had VW's and domestics.

[cali yaris]

racerfreak, it's simple. You can't swap in ANY ECU to the Yaris and have it run all the safety features and sub systems correctly. And you can't correct all of that with management. My understanding is you can't even swap in a Japanese Yaris ECU.

[RacerFreakXXX]

Well I guess having patience is all we can do now. I guess one step at a time and maybe one day someone will crack this ecu.

[cali yaris]

^ do you have a dyno?

Nexus, your rates are unusually low - I think that's great, no criticism there, but I also think you can't simply generalize to all markets.

The only decent dyno tuners in LA charge $250 per hour and up, and there are only three of them that I would trust my car with.

[Nexus1155]

No, sadly not, we were thinking about renting out another unit next door or behind us and chopping down the wall. Its 1500sq ft right now and we are packed to the brim kind of with all the equipment and cars we have in there.

We are on bad terms with the landlord already for overcrowding the parking area. 3 S4's outfront, 6 out back and like 3 BMWs and 2 astro vans and were really only suppose to have 5 spaces all together.

We can't really charge inflated rates here, but we do to some people who are willing to pay. A coworker did a job the other day for control arms and half shafts and banked in $850+ which is pretty good.

[cali yaris]

But my last point on this discussion is that the Dezod piece is not a piggyback. Its a unit that converts the factory ECU to a fully programable ECU. Its plug & play, it allows all factory functions to work, power steering, Can Bus, OBD2 port, A/C ect ect.

It's for the tC, not the Yaris. Like you said, it's the future for our car.

[cali yaris]

to be continued then, sounds good!

[CarBob08]

I really like the idea of the DIYEFI, fully custom is nice, but as many folks have said, it may be too much for the average Yari' fan.

[Dezod]

Ok. I do not get on this board too often, however let me enlighten those whom are unfamiliar with the Allan Phillips Racing systems.

The unit is an In-Line ECU. It is not a piggyback, and is not a standalone. It has properties of both and I will explain how and a lot of the cool functions it has to offer.

First, it has full closed loop and open loop fuel control. Most piggybacks do not offer both like the E-manage Ultimate, E-manage, S-AFC, Neo, FIC.....These unit s struggle (at best) to control the AFRs well and tightly around the stock ECU's strategy. The APR X1 does it flawlessly (if programmed properly). There is no pulse widths to enter like a standalone. There is no duty cycles to enter. There is no BS. Just enter the target AFR based upon load and engine RPM and be done with it. The tighter your injector transfer function is, the tighter the AFR control will be. The thing is SUPER accurate and provides mounds to data for easy tuning and no guess work.

Secondly, ignition timing is more like a piggyback in the fact that it lets the stock ECU make the final call for what it determines as far as spark advance. Your Spark Base table tune (allowing for both advance and/or retard) will provide an additional figure below or over the stock value. For example, say the stock ECU wanted 20 degrees at WOT, and you wanted 25, simply add +5 in those cells and be done. A negative 5 would yield 15 degrees of advance. This makes it easy and eliminates all of the guess work involved with ignition timing.

You can also alter the top speed, rev limiter, you get 2 step launch control, still works with ALL factory keys, accessories and such like a stock car. The OBD2 port is still active for emissions purposes for those of you whom have emissions in your area (unlike a standalone). All trouble codes are still active and in use too.

The real benefit of a unit like the APR is that is uses all of Toyo's millions of dollars of invested time and equipment to your advantage. Toyo spent countless man hours developing ECU fuel and ignition mapping strategies that you can now use to your advantage using the unit like the APR. The fact that you can custom sculpt a fuel curve and ignition curve with minimal effort and supreme accuracy is second to none.

If you become proficient with the APR unit, you do not even need a dyno to tune it. You can view the super sophisticated datalogging, make changes and see the air flow difference from one pull to the next. It doesn't get any better than that. Same deal for ignition timing too. You can see where knock occurs and when the stock ECU pulls out timing, and adjust accordingly. No fussing with custom knock curves and such.

I have tuned plenty of standalones and owned a complete standalone Lexus IS300 that we did with an AEM EMS, and this APR is second to none. The amount of data you can get and have from pull to pull, you don't even want to touch another system. My current DD has a custom APR on it, and it's an xB2. I love the darn thing! No cold start adjustments, no start extra fuel decay maps, no prolonged stat sync starts....Just turn key and go.

I will entertain and all questions regarding this unit and post datalogs and shots of the software to show that this unit is the future of modding Toyos.