Stay tuned

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by Blown_xa

What pads do use for the track? I run into brake fade issues after just a few laps on Hawk hp+. What our your current spring rates? I bumped up my front rates after removing sway and fight instability during high speed braking , but it rotates fine eveywhere else now.

We are currently using Carbotech XP10 in the front, with stock shoes in the rear. Zero fade, and we have been using this same set pretty much since we built the car - we tried a few other sets at some test days, but ended up going back to the XP10 for all of the races.
I am not a big fan of Carbotech (long story), so I have been trying to get our friends at Hawk to build Yaris pads. So far no luck, but if the B-Spec class generates enough interest we might be able to convince them.

Current rates are 550lbs front, 650lbs rear. Using the smaller sedan front bar, this is a recent change, and it made a big difference from the center of the turn out. No rear bar.

[thebarber]

i have carbotech's too (im not sure which model, i got them from echo_hrs)....they're squaky and dusty on the street (which my wife loves) but man do they ever grip w/o fade on the track...

[Blown_xa]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

We are currently using Carbotech XP10 in the front, with stock shoes in the rear. Zero fade, and we have been using this same set pretty much since we built the car - we tried a few other sets at some test days, but ended up going back to the XP10 for all of the races.
I am not a big fan of Carbotech (long story), so I have been trying to get our friends at Hawk to build Yaris pads. So far no luck, but if the B-Spec class generates enough interest we might be able to convince them.

Current rates are 550lbs front, 650lbs rear. Using the smaller sedan front bar, this is a recent change, and it made a big difference from the center of the turn out. No rear bar.

I appreciate the info!

[why?]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

We are currently using Carbotech XP10 in the front, with stock shoes in the rear. Zero fade, and we have been using this same set pretty much since we built the car - we tried a few other sets at some test days, but ended up going back to the XP10 for all of the races.
I am not a big fan of Carbotech (long story), so I have been trying to get our friends at Hawk to build Yaris pads. So far no luck, but if the B-Spec class generates enough interest we might be able to convince them.

Current rates are 550lbs front, 650lbs rear. Using the smaller sedan front bar, this is a recent change, and it made a big difference from the center of the turn out. No rear bar.

No rear bar? People around here swear by the rear bar. Of course then I doubt they are running rates like that. The sedan front sway bar is smaller? I wonder if I can pick one up used.

[dingbat]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Current rates are 550lbs front, 650lbs rear. Using the smaller sedan front bar, this is a recent change, and it made a big difference from the center of the turn out. No rear bar.

Mind sharing what dampeners you're using?
Apologies if you've already said and I missed it.

[dingbat]

Originally Posted by why?

No rear bar? People around here swear by the rear bar. Of course then I doubt they are running rates like that. The sedan front sway bar is smaller? I wonder if I can pick one up used.

Four of the fastest SoloII VWs I've known of used no rear bar and a massive front bar. A Rabbit, a Scirocco, and two Jettas - very similar to the Yaris in suspension, power, weight, and weight distribution. There's more to the equation than just the bars but the conventional wisdom of small bar front, big bar back may make the car easier to drive, but doesn't necessarily make it fast.

[ilikerice]

agreed with that guy ^

after i put my rear sway bar on (UR 23mm) i honestly didnt notice a huge change with my autocross runs. I felt it a little, but not enough to say "DAYUM".. but it looks good.

i think my best mod are coilovers and tires.

[Jason@SportsCar]

The AST-USA http://www.ast-usa.com/ rear shocks we had built are shorter than stock, and have droop limiters, so a bar is not really effective on our car. If you jack up a typical Yaris the rear suspension may droop 3-4 inches, ours only goes down 1", so it tries to pick up the rear tire well before a bar would have much effect.

A rear bar helps free the car up on corner entry, but once you pick up the throttle and the rear settles down the bar is not doing much.

On the road race car if you free it up too much on entry the car can be nervous, and you might spend the first part of the turn chasing the tail. In an autocross environment the transitions happen so quickly, and the speeds are lower, so it is a more effective tuning aid.

It also doesn't hurt that my preference is a tight car, it is much easier to correct. A loose car expends way to much energy going sideways, energy that is no longer driving you forward.

Many cars see a benefit from a bigger front bar for Solo. It helps RWD cars put down power, and transition quickly. On strut FWD/AWD cars it helps to prevent camber loss, so even though it is counter intuitive it actually helps corner speed.

But (imho) for the most part swaybars are a band-aid for the wrong springs. Of course this depends on who's school of thought you want to subscribe to... One camp believes that soft springs make a more compliant suspension, that soaks up track surface imperfections, and you use big bars to control roll. The other guys believe swaybars try to take away grip by lifting the inside tires, so you use stiff springs to control body roll, and minimal bars to tune balance.

I like both... On a Solo car, where you only get three runs and the surface is usually crap, I like a car that is soft and forgiving. You wont get a perfect run with only three shots, so make the car easy to drive. On the track you have a lot of laps to figure it out, even if you screw up a lap you have a lot of chances to make it back up, so a stiff car works good here.

[why?]

Originally Posted by dingbat

Four of the fastest SoloII VWs I've known of used no rear bar and a massive front bar. A Rabbit, a Scirocco, and two Jettas - very similar to the Yaris in suspension, power, weight, and weight distribution. There's more to the equation than just the bars but the conventional wisdom of small bar front, big bar back may make the car easier to drive, but doesn't necessarily make it fast.

I wouldn't call them similar to the Yaris though. Maybe in concept, but the feel is just so much different. Plus does a Scirocco really have a torsion bar rear?

I'm still just grasping suspension tuning and what it really does. But I bet driver skill had a ton to do with it too.

[dingbat]

Originally Posted by why?

I wouldn't call them similar to the Yaris though. Maybe in concept, but the feel is just so much different. Plus does a Scirocco really have a torsion bar rear?

Having owned and raced a '79 Scirocco, and owned (for an admittedly short time now) a 2010 Yaris 3 door, I think the cars feel very similar, except for driver position, which will affect location of the center of mass. My own opinion of course, but I think what works for one, will work for the other when talking in basic concepts.
Yes, to the best of my knowledge, all the A1 chassis VWs had torsion bar rear ends. My '79 Scirocco did, and so did every A1 chassis I've ever been under. Maybe not the pickups?

Originally Posted by why?

I'm still just grasping suspension tuning and what it really does. But I bet driver skill had a ton to do with it too.

Always correct.
Same drivers however were faster in the setup I'm referring to than in a "conventional" setup in the same car. One of the cars ran in stock class and won SCCA Solo II nationals. May have even been both drivers, one male one female. The other cars have made very good showings nationally and divisionaly. Point being, they were competing against excellent drivers to start with.

And forgive me, I was talking specifically about the A1 chassis in my post above. I should have been clear about that.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by dingbat

Always correct.
Same drivers however were faster in the setup I'm referring to than in a "conventional" setup in the same car. One of the cars ran in stock class and won SCCA Solo II nationals. May have even been both drivers, one male one female. The other cars have made very good showings nationally and divisionaly. Point being, they were competing against excellent drivers to start with.

And forgive me, I was talking specifically about the A1 chassis in my post above. I should have been clear about that.

Many years ago Bob and Patty Tunnell ran a Jetta Wolfsburg very successfully (1992 ES/ESL Champions) in stock class... I seem to recall the running joke was their front swaybar was from a Winnebago.

[dingbat]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Many years ago Bob and Patty Tunnell ran a Jetta Wolfsburg very successfully (1992 ES/ESL Champions) in stock class... I seem to recall the running joke was their front swaybar was from a Winnebago.

That's the one......"Mongo".

I was told the bar was custom made at an RV shop out of stock normaly used for RV swaybars. Though I don't know the exact dimensions, it was suposedly "as big as a baby's arm". My friend in town here, who is using a setup that decended from ideas inspired by the Tunnell's Jetta, runs a front bar off a Pontiac Firebird that is over 30mm.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Not much going on with the Yaris right now, for the most part our National racing season winds down this time of year, so we have a few months to prep for the Runoffs.

Had a little time to kill after watching Indy, so I installed the new Energy Suspension engine/trans mount:

[thebarber]

are they going to be making the mounts for public sale?

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by thebarber

are they going to be making the mounts for public sale?

I don't know.

[Jason@SportsCar]

How did I miss this??? Wish I had an xbox.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/fo...d/4423907.aspx

[cali yaris]

aww, you're immortal now

[thebarber]

since when did you have the rear lip on the yaris? or side mirrors? for SHAME forza!

lol

thats pretty wicked though