S/C owners: collecting information

[PETERPOOP]

Well I put my stock airbox on, and I'm getting readings of 11-12 at WOT (during open loop). You hear that Noogie?

However, this is only at Open loop. Open loop takes a few to open once I initially hit the gass hard. So during that time I am running hard and it's not open loop yet, I am still seeing numbers of 14-15. However, once in Open loop, I saw 11-12. My IGN timing was still at 17. Not low teens like everyone else said they were getting. So are those proper numbers oppossed to other people now because I am running that IGN timing with 11-12 AFR? Is it safe to have 17 IGN timing now that I am getting 11-12 during open loop?

No time to do driving tonight (homework), but tomorrow I will get more numbers.

[Nexus1155]

wellll more fuel will counter act high spark, but just by putting the stock airbox you limited the air that much to change the AFR by 2 points? These cars are screwy as helllll. Go drive some more and bring back some more data lol...

[cali yaris]

^ I think he's onto something. Looks like MAYBE the intake set up makes a difference with respect to the tune that Blitz intended.

[PETERPOOP]

The stock airbox DEFINATELY made a change in my AFR and I guess it's a testament of how much air the aFe intake really takes in. I am curious to know what intakes each blitz owner is using. It's hard to believe that the aFe intake would make so much of a difference compared to other aftermarket intakes. However, the numbers don't lie.

I hope noogie is inspired to swap back to his stock airbox too, and we can confirm this.

Definately will have more of a variety of A/F readings in the next couple of days.

[LtNoogie]

I guess this is where iterative tweeking and dyno testing is the right way to tune if one could afford it. Bringing the AFR back to a safe range is not the end goal. The end goal should be to maximize power while staying in a safe operating zone.

Peter is enrichening his mixture at WOT by limiting airflow slightly. Peter, what was your ignition timing under WOT before you put on the stock airbox? If timing was lower than 17, you may have increased your power while at the same time moved yourself into a safer zone. If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.

I am going to try the opposite tack. In order to enrichen my mixture at WOT, I am going to try to dump more fuel into the charge by trying larger injectors (thanks Garm). I'm trying to collect as much data as I can with my logger before changing to the larger injectors.

It's really cool that we have enough S/C'd owners that we can try different approaches.

[PETERPOOP]

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

Peter is enrichening his mixture at WOT by limiting airflow slightly. Peter, what was your ignition timing under WOT before you put on the stock airbox? If timing was lower than 17, you may have increased your power while at the same time moved yourself into a safer zone. If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.

Like I said in my update post (like 4 posts before this), my IGN timing is the same now as it was with the aFe intake at WOT. My IGN timing is 17 at WOT (open loop) now and it was 17 with the aFe. The only difference now is that I have 11-12 AFR with the stock airbox, and when I had the aFe on, I had 13-14 AFR.

I'm still not sure if I am any safer now even though I have 11-12 AFR, but still the 17 IGN timing. Anyone know? Because the majority of the blitz owners who run 11-12 AFR, have low teens or single digit IGN numbers. However, I do not.

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.

IT IS in the 11-12 range. That's the reason for my update. However, my question was, is it ok if I am running 17 IGN timing with the 11-12 AFR.

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

Bringing the AFR back to a safe range is not the end goal. The end goal should be to maximize power while staying in a safe operating zone.

For now, it is for me. However, I can promise I will eventually get the greddy emanage ultimate/larger injectors/larger throttle body/aFe intake and tune it accordingly for maximum HP with ideal AFR.

[TOUGEghost]

Those new AFR numbers with the stock intake look much better. Is that 17* peak? What does the whole timing curve look like? It may be the best you can do anyway until you have a way to actually make adjustments to the fuel and timing maps (e-mangae, injectors, etc. like you mentioned). I know a 4G63 isn't the same engine but the tuning principles are similar; I run 21* peak timing WOT open loop at full boost with a target AFR of about 11.1

[PETERPOOP]

The 17 is not peak. I think it might go to 18-19 too. Well from your response, I'll take it that the 17 IGN timing area is safe and actually good!

I believe it's not possible to adjust IGN timing. Not sure though...

More numbers coming tomorrow!

[TOUGEghost]

If it runs smooth and doesn't knock, it should be ok. I usually advance timing 1* at a time until the power curve flattens out or I start to get knock.

[Nexus1155]

Question... did the blitz install say to change out the air intake? I mean you have to consider the ecu senses air coming into the engine and tries to compensate for it...

Its like trying to suck air in through your mouth or air in through a straw..... One has a large area to gather in volume and one has only a small hole.....

For whoever is getting crap AFR on your blitz kit, i urge you to try what Peter did, 11-12 is ideal for a SC and fueling(safe) i doubt hell have any more problems if this is the case...

[LtNoogie]

I could probably approximate a stock air box by taping off part of my aFe filter. That's a quick and dirty way of limiting airflow without doing the whole airbox thing.

[cali yaris]

11 is fine under boost.

The scangauge does lag ever so slightly.

More than slightly, IMO. The scangauge is really slow, OBDII is really not useful for real-time data that changes rapidly.

[PETERPOOP]

Well even if the scangauge is lagging to go into open loop; like cammell said, just look at your boost gauge once you are in boost. If your numbers aren't 11-12, then you are lean. So it shouldn't matter if the scanguage is lagging to go into open loop, because your wideband and boost gauge are instant.

Well I am glad to hear that camell and KK are both only getting 11-12 when in open loop. Atleast I am up to page with the "normal" blitz guys.

I gotta go driving to class in a few, so I will be collecting numbers and will post later today.


* I wish the other blitz owners were active in this thread.....

[PETERPOOP]

Drove around more today. Constant 11.9-12.1 AFR with 16-17 IGN timing when in open loop. Idle of 15 AFR with single digit IGN. Also in DFCO i get 15 AFR. Open loop needs to happen sooner. I don't not like seeing the 11-12 AFR until open loop. I'd like to see it sooner, especially when I engage WOT.

[PETERPOOP]

lol. ghetto R&D. nice

[Nexus1155]

The even funnier thing is is that if the tape isn't super pourous it will work!! hahaha

[LtNoogie]

I haven't seen my airbox since the car was a few weeks old. Does anyone know what is the size of the air inlet to the box? Is is something easily measurable?

[yaris-me]

Just PMed. Had to leave the warmth of my apartment.