"Parmas" Motor

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

I want to see this car on the road soon. Please.

Well today I tempted myself to take a drive. Got into the car and turned ignition on...

In the meantime some ppl were taking a walk just few metres away when suddenly they heard the loudy exhaust and stopped to figure out from where is this coming. Throttle up and a vitz just appeared humbling.
I was amazed for all ppl who stopped just for few seconds from their usual lifetime staring at the car backfiring on a stop sign.

The drive took only 15min and I can say they were the best minutes of my life! I really wish that there was someone available for video shooting the experience ...

[changchewsoon]

damn, just by reading your post im already wet~~~ :D :D

[Parmas]

Ok here is what remains for the setup to be finalized:

- Oil cooler :- Flexalite Thermostat active oil cooler 10 1/2" x 15" x 4" (1/2" Female NPT)

- Completition of Exhaust piping :- 2.5" stainless piping and Y shaped dual mufflers

- Aluminium Intake mainfold

- Ford Cosworth RS5 standard pressure regulator

- Upgraded Fuel Rail

- Ceramic coating on exhaust mainfold / turbo housing / downpipe

- Maybe upgrade valve and springs?

- Tial External wastegate ?

Hope I will get the money for all this within the next 2 months to finish!

BTW do any of you know a company in Europe that sells flexalite oil coolers?

[Parmas]

Today I found one person who could make ceramic coating for me. He said that the burner reaches 1000 Degrees Celcius for sure. I went to the stainless crafter and gave me a trial piping to test. Tomorrow will go and handle the metal and will see if this can be done! *I hope it works*

What do you recommend in coating apart Exhaust mainfold / Turbo / Downpipe... (Top cover?

[CASTREX]

All you need to coat is the turbo, manifold and downpipe... that's where the heat will be coming from.

[turboecho2005]

I can't wait to see it 100% complete and tuned with my old motor.. and 300+hp ;)

[changchewsoon]

hi parmas,

are you planning to recirculate your BOV back in to your air intake since you are retaining your MAF sensor?

im actually currently thinking of doing so, everytime the the BOV opens and vent the air off to atmosphere i noticed the afr from the wideband goes pig rich.

[Parmas]

Originally Posted by changchewsoon

hi parmas,

are you planning to recirculate your BOV back in to your air intake since you are retaining your MAF sensor?

im actually currently thinking of doing so, everytime the the BOV opens and vent the air off to atmosphere i noticed the afr from the wideband goes pig rich.

I don't think I will recirculate the BOV cause I love that bov sound :) I don't know if it's normal that the blow off can cause the engine rich maybe there is some setting in the ecu that is causing you this.

What ecu are you using? Does the afr signals this during release of pedal at a certain gear or during gear change?

[changchewsoon]

hi parmas, im currently driving an automatic and not a manual gearbox.

well, if you're retaining the MAF sensor like me then recirculating is the way to go. reason is the MAF has already measured the air that has passed through and signals the ECU to send fuel, when you close your throttle and your BOV vents the air out to atmosphere the MAF has no idea about it and hence you'll run rich.

and when you're in close loop the O2 sensor picks up a rich reading, it will signal the ECU to reduce fuel and also updates the fuel trim table as well. we don't want that in the long run.

im currently using the e-manage blue wired up with a MAP sensor. the e-manage will clamp the MAF voltage when boost comes in and will rely on the MAP sensor for readings to adjust fuel and to prevent the CEL from coming on.

however, from my wideband reading it shows that during low/partial throttle when the BOV vents I go rich. doing a recirculation and plumbing the air back to the intake after the MAF will help lot in the throttle response and increase the build up of turbo spooling.

i like the sound of the bov as well, even with circulation its actually quite loud especially if you're running a CAI setup. i actually prefer to run as quiet as possible, the sound doesn't mean a lot to me. i prefer to run faster ahead of the guy in traffic light without creating a lot of attention with the BOV.

venting to atmosphere is not suitable for MAF equipped cars unless you're running a MAP setup. alternatively, you could buy a MAF translator like one from HKS and you can remove the MAF all together. The E-Manage Ultimate does it as well, HKS F-CON VPro too.

[Parmas]

I do not know if recirculating will improve power since the air blown off by the bov is the uneeded air into the turbo piping. Also at that moment in time the engine is at closed throttle and recirculating the air maybe the same as forcing air into the engine when infact it doesn't need it now.

Taking this point now, why and what is the intention of having a bov when infact you want boost air to remain "ready" into the piping? Might aswell not having a bov at all and leave the boosted air into the piping. Well the reasons I guess are that you might blow a hose or force the air into the engine before infact it is needed.

Please correct me if there is something you disagree...

[changchewsoon]

hi parmas, i do agree with you that having a bov is important for turbo cars as without it when your throttle plate closes and the air would have no where to go but to hit back the turbine and causing surge.

what i was trying to suggest is that if your car setup still retains the MAF sensor it will be good to perform a recirculation from the BOV back in to the intake. Post MAF but pre turbo.

recirculating will not cause the air to be forced back in to the engine because your throttle plate is already closed. it will recirculate through the bov to the intake, back to the bov again to the intake and the cycle continues. hence its called "recirculation".

i know what you mean by removing the bov and having air to remain "ready" in the intake, well you can't remove the bov totally because if you do that you're gonna hurt your turbo in the long run.

however, with a recirculation setup most ppl will notice an increase in throttle response due to the fact that the air is "there" the moment your throttle plate opens. remember, its post MAF and pre turbo, so its just air circulating within your intake, you could call it close loop if you want, which many factory fitted turbo cars such as audi and VW is practicing. if you look at a stock turbo subaru or evo, you would notice they are running close loop intake as well.

my argument is that your MAF has already registered a certain amount of air passing through it and sends signal to the ECU to send fuel to match it, when you vent it out to atmosphere the ECU has no idea and hence you run rich.

the recirculation is not meant to improve power, it is meant to prevent MAF equipped cars to go rich every time you shift gears and messing up with your fuel trims. some cars will even stall between gear shifts if they do not perform recirculation.

im not saying it is a must for you to recirculate, im just suggesting that for MAF equipped cars recirculating is a better option rather than venting to atmosphere so you don't run rich, mess up your fuel trims and face chances of stalling thats all.

[cali yaris]

^ Very good explanation. On my car with standalone we have no MAF so no need for recirculated configuration.

[Nexus1155]

I thought clamping the MAF voltage makes it so that you don't have to worry about the MAF readings and that its just read from the emanage, so if it is clamped can you still use a BOV? I mean i know recirc valves are the way to go in all aspects, but you know, some rice is a little nice.

[changchewsoon]

the reason why we clamp the MAF is beause the moment you build boost past a certain stage the MAF gets saturated if it sends a voltage anything higher that 5v to the ECU then the ECU will throw a CEL. so the MAF clamp is good for WOT.

but when you're in closed loop, clamping the MAF has no effect as your ECU is relying on your stock O2 narrowband for feedback to maintain AFR at 14.7.

you could trying clamping your MAF at a fixed voltage across the entire RPM range, but im pretty sure you'll see your fuel trims will have a high readings of negative fuel trimmings in closed loop and if it maxes out or it can't pull fuel fast enough you'll get a too rich CEL.

you only start clamping when the MAF is nearing its limit, that usually happens around WOT unless you're boosting very high and the MAF itself is already maxed out during low/partial throttle.

some of the boosted yaris here uses the f-manage to control the afr in closed loop, im using the innovate lc-1 as it has a narrowband o2 output and its programmable.

we had a Toyota Wish here who uses a GT28 turbine and his stock MAF wasn't able to handle it even on low/partial throttle at low RPMS and his ECU kept throwing a too rich CEL even when the MAF is clamped. that is because during closed loop, his ECU wasn't able to pull fuel fast enough to maintain the 14.7 afr and he keeps going rich and when the ECU sees that it can't get the afr back to normal after a period of time it throws a CEL.

[rob323]

Originally Posted by changchewsoon

my argument is that your MAF has already registered a certain amount of air passing through it and sends signal to the ECU to send fuel to match it, when you vent it out to atmosphere the ECU has no idea and hence you run rich.

the recirculation is not meant to improve power, it is meant to prevent MAF equipped cars to go rich every time you shift gears and messing up with your fuel trims. some cars will even stall between gear shifts if they do not perform recirculation.

Some have speculated that it is unwise to run an atmo bov with a MAF as that extra richness during gear changes can wash or dilute the oil on the bores and cause premature ring wear and other associated long term problems.
+1 for recirculation, even better if the return piping from the bov can be somehow aimed at the turbo inlet inthe right way so that it helps keep the turbine speed up.

[Parmas]

Thanks for your info changchesoon I will consider recirculation if necessary... btw here are some shots from the ecu btw GoTech MFI proX (DATA WITHOUT ENGINE START)

[Parmas]

Someothers

[Nexus1155]

Hey chang when you say the fmanage, do you mean the F-con if so, which one, when i go onto ebay it looks like they are unprogrammable vehicle spacific... thanks for the help.