Another S/C'd member worried about his AFR

[Nexus1155]

What kind of oil does everyone use here? That seems like a lot of sludge buildup...

If the ECU is the way people say it is it will compensate for the extra fuel to bring it to 14.7 when you add more air to the system. If you are worried about the injectors duty, upgrade to TC injectors for a little extra security. But even with that little added boost, it should bring you to about where a turbo with 6psi of power has. So It has been done power wise before, and all in all you should be good to go? :)

[Loren]

Kuro, bumping the boost up to 8psi is where you start having the real FI headaches. I wouldn't recommend being the guinea pig for this unless you have the means to really monitor things AND deal with everything that's likely to come up, like needing more fuel, needing less ignition advance, and possibly even the need for intercooling or water injection to reduce the charge temperature.

Keep in mind that Blitz is a big company that did their homework, and did their R&D and testing in-house before putting a product on the market. NST is not at the same level, and they're asking you to help with their development at YOUR own risk.

As to the power question, the increase in power is going to be somewhat proportional to the increase in pressure... with 14.7 being the basis, no zero. So, if you've got 4 psi of boost, that's a 27% increase in air. You'll lose some of that due to having to compress the charge in the intake piping and manifold, etc, so you probably don't see a full 27% increase in air introduced to the cylinder. So, maybe 20-25%? Which is about what people are seeing on the dyno from the Blitz kit, right?

Bump that up by 2 psi and you're at 6psi, or 40.8% over atmospheric pressure. So, you could see as much as 40% more power, but realistically, 30-35%.

Numbers are a funny thing. Much depends on whether you want to be optimistic or pessimistic in your estimates.

There's a reason why the Blitz kit is limited in the amount of boost it delivers. If it was EASY to reliably provide more boost and more power, they'd do it!

[kurokoma-kun]

Originally Posted by Loren

There's a reason why the Blitz kit is limited in the amount of boost it delivers. If it was EASY to reliably provide more boost and more power, they'd do it!

Thanks for the analysis. Yep, the "easy" factor is why I chose the Blitz kit in the first place (well, that and the low end torque ).

When I talked with Garm about the NST pullies we were hoping they might be another bolt-on application like a compressor itself--this is pretty much the only thing customers like me are gonna want to buy.

Well, I dunno... I think it might be biting off more than I care to chew... but the idea is still out there for folks willing to overhaul the fuel and engine management systems but are looking for a way to make additional boost.

[Nexus1155]

lol your probably using regular crap oil then, I would recommend switching to Mobil 1 Synthetic, it should solve all of that gunked up problems

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by Loren

Now, I was thinking about all of this worry about being lean on these SC cars. (because I noticed one for sale for $2500 and had a fleeting moment where I was thinking about it... until I remembered that I don't have the money) Remember, even though your car is "forced induction" with the SC kit, it's a VERY light boost. What is it? 4psi? Maybe 6psi? Guess what? The real problems with fuel and spark retard don't happen until way beyond there. You guys are applying the kind of fear that one should have with a medium-high boost turbo to a low-boost supercharger, and I really don't think it's warranted at all.

I'd rock a Blitz SC right out of the box. Run premium fuel and be happy. Life is too short for such paranoia!

This is what I said the the beginning of the thread. These guys are not going to blow their cars up, they are just not optimal. They would get better mileage and more power under the curve with more agressive timing and richer AFRs, VS. the current setup of leaner AFRs and conservative timing.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by Nexus1155

See, but thats the thing, you can get one of these out of the box be happy and be fine, but not run optimally. I think thats what everyone is looking for. And it is such a small amount of boost that supercharger is running.

What I am trying to think now is that if you do have extra injectors it might be the only feasable option to get the AFR correct for now until someone finds an interceptor for the O2 Sensors, but will it cause a rich condition and trigger a CEL as well!. Damn these cars to hell

You are really overcomplicating this. If you really want adjustability, go buy a Greddy Emanage and be done with it. I know that is not the answer you want to hear, but in the end it is the simplest and cheapest.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by Loren

I'll believe that when I see it.

Let me qualify that. The bolt-on, out-of-the box Blitz SC kit with fully tuned and optimized fuel and spark. The initial installation is only good for about 25%, or 25-30 hp. No way is optimizing the fuel and spark going to DOUBLE that. You'll find another 3-8%... maybe as much as 10% or so, just like you would by tuning the car without the SC. That's the factory's margin of safety that you're playing with.

Now, you might see something close to that with a lot of OTHER additional mods, like a complete free-flowing intake, larger TB, better flowing intake manifold, some head work, a good header and a complete free-flowing exhaust. But, that's an awful lot of other stuff that doesn't really fall into the category of "fuel and spark tuning". And, even with all of that, I still don't think you're going to DOUBLE the output of the SC without raising the level of boost.

I'd say we could get 10% under the curve easily, probably slightly more. Peak piwer increase I would expect 8-10%. You make more power with timing than you do with boost. LtNoogie is seeing single digit ignition advance under load. If we could get that up to where is should be, and add some fue,l the gains would be there. There is a lot of potential.

[kurokoma-kun]

Originally Posted by camelll

the car should have come from the factory with the power the blitz puts out

WORD

Originally Posted by camelll

glad I got the oil catch.

Where did mount yours? Is there an ideal spot? Saw the pic of staypuft's on the battery, but I have so much room up in front of the CAI... is that too far for the hose to reach the pcv valve?

[kurokoma-kun]

Originally Posted by camelll

It was just a nasty hodgepodge of shit and I still cannot get that smell out of my nose.

niiiiiiiice, and that shyt is goin down my intake track?

No idea what I'll see since 5000 mi. I been on full synthetic, changed every 5k. At almost 40k now with some 3500 on the charger, I hope mine won't be so disgusting

The DIY can in the link is very compact, its clever also, but I think I'll just get a cheap metal one, I've been on a chrome kick lately

[LtNoogie]

Can someone recommend a good OBD II data logging software package? I was making a few freeway runs last night in 3rd gear to collect data and saw some surprising results on the ScanGauge. Not bad readings, surprising readings.

It's too hard to videotape the gauges and the ScanGauge due to the shakiness of the camera mounts I have tried.

I was monitoring Open/Closed loop state, RPM, Throttle Position, and Ignition timing. What I saw was that the car went into Open Loop during acceleration more often than expected with the S/C turned on AND when it was turned off. This is happening before hitting 50% throttle position.

[bearda]

I'm a big fan of a good ELM327 based reader (I like the ElmScan 5, but just make sure it's using a real ELM327 and not a knockoff) and PCMSCAN. Seems to work well on my Mazda and the Yaris.

[kurokoma-kun]

Well now you bastards have got me obsessing too! (not difficult)

Today I also saw one open loop status that fell outside what you all are describing as normal triggering conditions (DFCO and WOT)... it was under boost and acceleration at 32 TPS and 15 ign timing, and persisted for like 10 seconds... wtf.

Here's one random thought, though I don't know if it means anything at all. According to the wiring diagrams the s/c fuel controller does not wire into the throttle position sensor (TPS) located on the throttle body itself (ECM terminal VTA1) but rather into the accelerator pedal position sensor located on the pedal (VPA). Other than that it hooks up to RPM, ignition switch, injectors 1-4, and MAF (VG). The two other wires go to ground and activation switch.

Since the ECM uses the VTA1 data direct from the TPS to calculate everything from valve timing to long- and short-term fuel trims, I don't know what to think of that! I guess the fuel controller is altering the VPA signal sent to the TPS, and thereby manipulating the VTA1 signal then sent to the ECM?

[LtNoogie]

Originally Posted by kurokoma-kun

Well now you bastards have got me obsessing too! (not difficult)

I don't know what to think of that! I guess the fuel controller is altering the VPA signal sent to the TPS, and thereby manipulating the VTA1 signal then sent to the ECM?

KK, you are overthinking. Don't do it! Last night, I dreamt of fuel pumps, pressure regulators, a set of injectors. It drove me crazy.

I am getting better at calculating the right sized pump and injectors. The biggest problem is that many of the calculations start with your desired HP output. So... I put in 400 HP. Now I have to put in a more realistic number.

So... what do you think is a realistic crank HP that a tuned Blitz kit should be able to put out?


BTW, I've been looking at this OBD II software package.

http://www.auterraweb.com/dynoscan.html

I'll also check out the ones that were posted recently.

[kurokoma-kun]

I think its called PBSD (post boost stress disorder). I barely remember last December, when all my friends were enjoying holiday festivities while I wandered around in a daze, smelling of gas and babbling incoherently about induction system leaks

Hell if I know the max hp at the crank! why not enter a value like 150 or 175 and see what you get. Have you thought of trying to talk to someone at RC Injection btw? They are right there in Torrance, maybe you can get some inside info.

[LtNoogie]

Yes. I'll give them a call. Did I say part of my dream included a fuel line popping off and spraying 91 Octane inside the car while I am full boost? I think I'll order the OBD logger by Wednesday once I research the different ones.

[Doc Zaius]

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

Yes. I'll give them a call. Did I say part of my dream included a fuel line popping off and spraying 91 Octane inside the car while I am full boost? I think I'll order the OBD logger by Wednesday once I research the different ones.

Weirdo!

[kurokoma-kun]

Originally Posted by camelll

so I now keep all the tools and extinguisher in the trunk.

bbwwwwaahahhahhahaa I also keep the magical tool kit and extinguisher in my car! as well as other ritual objects like the domo-kun shrine I made

does anyone know if those flat hydraulic jacks are worth the money? they look like they should fit under lowered cars?

[LtNoogie]

Q: When do I need to upgrade the injectors for my car?

A: The factory fuel injection system operates slightly rich from the factory. Because of this, certain engine upgrades such as low restriction air intake/exhaust systems and/or slight increases in boost pressure can usually be taken care of by the factory fuel injection system.

When airflow increases are substantial and the factory injectors are unable to keep up, larger injectors and/or fuel pressure increases are required. The factory fuel injection system can usually accommodate an injector that flows about 15-20% more than stock without compromising the idle quality or the low RPM drivability. If the air flow increase/horsepower target requires an injector that exceeds a 20% increase over stock, there are several options.

1. Re-program the factory ECU specifically for the new larger sized injectors.
2. Add a piggyback fuel computer that will allow you to control the larger injectors.
3. Use a stand alone engine management system to control the larger injectors.